Eric F 

It seems to me that Storck's current prices are in line with other high-end bikes of the same build. That said, the frame I have (Fascenario.3 Platinum) was dubbed "the most expensive road bike" in 2017... https://www.flobikes.com/articles/67...ario3-platinum I bought mine used, and paid a fraction of what it cost the original owner.

What you saw makes sense. Storck is a German brand, and without much presence in the US.

Koyote

Yes, you’re correct on the whole. I was referring just to the statements in the post to which I replied. That is classic tautological reasoning.

genejockey 

"The First Rule of Tautology Club is the First Rule of Tautology Club!"

Lombard

I don't know, maybe you should ask tomato coupe .

genejockey 

*sigh*

Trakhak

rsbob 

Because it is there?

tomato coupe

That's a question for you, not me -- you're the one claiming that "never goes out of true" and "never needs truing" have different meanings.

Lombard

You either have a severe reading comprehension problem or you just enjoy taking bits and pieces out of context.

I never claimed these meant different things. Do I need to repeat myself or terrymorse again? Are you really that dense or are you just trolling?

tomato coupe

It's right here ...

Lombard

DERP times eleventy! No that's what YOU said. terrymorse said:

"If all wheels were built correctly in the first place, there would be no wheels going out of true."

I said that's not the same thing as saying wheels never need trueing.

Not worth the time playing your mind game. I'm out.

genejockey 

Wow.

If no properly-built wheels go out of true, and the only reason to true a wheel is that it's gone out of true, this is the same thing as saying wheels never need trueing. How do you not see this?

Eric F 

Part of this thread needs to be moved to the "needlessly contentious" thread

smd4

Sometimes it’s fun to read these dopey threads from the sidelines!

Lombard

Are all wheels properly built? I don't think so.

genejockey 

Ah! I get it! You missed tomato coupe's point, and so have been arguing against something nobody said all day.

Jeff Neese

I think it does, especially when it's measured over all stages, all years, for decades. There's perhaps nothing more meaningful than average speed.

Looking at the actual data, it's pretty clear that the bikes of 2023 are NOT significantly "better" (faster) than they were since about the mid 90's. At least that's what the data shows.

tomato coupe

You've tried this argument before, but the Tour de France doesn't tell the whole story. Spring classics are actually a more controlled experiment as the courses are more consistent from year to year. Paris Roubaix, for example, shows winning times steadily decreasing for 20-30 years:

Lombard

Apparently.......if there was one.

Koyote

Yeah. If you read the last five or six posts, one right after the other, it's like walking through a party and catching little snippets of different conversations.

Maelochs

My friend, please .... stop.

You and Only you have decided that "better" is equivalent to "faster," and you have then taken this to be the world validating you .... but really, the rest of the world can see that you are merely saying, "I said this, and I am always right."

Look at auto racing .... absolute speeds might not be equal to what they were in the late sixties or early seventies, but back in those days, something between a tenth and a quarter of all drivers died each year. Nowadays even severe injuries are rare. If you don't think that survival is a large part of "better" .... do I need to finish this thought?

Also, as has been noted ... a "race" bike is not a bike built exclusively for racing unless it is a track bike .... UCI World Tour bikes are actually more like Showroom Stock racers .... so a lot of what makes them "better" doesn't make them better for racing, but better for All riders riding those bikes.

But hey ... you do you. If all that matters is whether the bikes of today are faster than the bikes of three decades ago .... Great! Go buy and ride vintage bikes. No One Cares (except the folks in C&V .... go visit them.)

As for "faster = better" well .... whatever. Since you are going to get slower for the rest of your life .... again, need I finish the thought?

smd4

Slow bikes for the win!

Atlas Shrugged

If these old bikes are so good and equal in performance why is nobody riding them? Go to any mass participation event or ride the popular local route and they are nowhere to be seen. The only market for them seems to be 55 or older collectors who are hoarding them like toilet paper at the onset of COVID. Even those who have these vintage bikes never seem to ride them on those long or challenging days. But as always if you want to ride a difficult century on a 5 speed straight block tubular bike, pumped to 140 psi, you be you.

rsbob 

Feel like I stumbled into WWE.

Eric F 

This is less scripted, but somehow there’s more repeats of the same story.