Just one problem. If everybody followed your suggestions, there would be virtually no comment on this forum. Just saying.

We have had plenty of good threads, even threads where people held various contrary opinions very strongly and expressed them strongly ... but if we are completely willing to ignore fact and champion opinion, we cease to communicate like intelligent beings and end up babbling like idiots or grunting like animals.

We can argue about a lot of stuff, but if we cannot agree about the reality we all share, even though we all perceive it differently ...

Really, which of those guidelines stifle discussion?

#1--Don't talk too much about stuff you don't know about. Sounds good.
#2--When shown to be wrong, admit you are wrong. What is wrong whit that? If the only way we can have discussion is to insist that black is white and hot is cold, why bother having discussions?
#3--Right? Understand what you know versus what you just believe, or what you heard some other person say but never investigated. How is that not a good idea for everywhere, all the time?
#4--Don't insist on your stuff if you don't know your stuff, and if you insist on insisting, back it up. What, that is a bad idea? Not in my universe.
5--Don't move the goalposts, don't change the terms of the debate in mid-stream ... this is just a way to say "Discuss honestly." If expecting honesty stifles discussion ... Good.
#6--Don't keep saying the same stuff over and over as if you think you can convince by repetition. if you have nothing to support your position, find something or admit it is untenable.
#7--Speaks for itself.

These are the sort of things a parent would teach his children (hopefully) or a teacher would teach to children.

Before the last time I took a voluntary break because I was getting on the nerves of too many mods, a couple posters complained about the general tone of discussion on this site. On another site I frequent, people sometimes make jokes about this sit ... not pleasant jokes.

I realized that I could do better ... and the site could be better. We can still have fun with Rydabent's bi-monthly repeated complaints about DF-riders staring at the front wheels, and the demand that everyone where spandex ... and plenty of other enjoyable (?) discussion. We still have Larrysellerz. We can still warn people about how carbon fiber assplodes. We don't need to be unpleasant tone another .... or beat a thread to death over whether removing the weight of a molecule makes a "significant" difference in bike performance.

Bike forums can be a site worth visiting without featuring a bunch of halfwits bickering ... or so I believe. Probably a better site .....

If all it is is an endless stream of caustic posts by toxic people ... who cares if there are no discussions then?

A very educational thread with so much cycling related content.:rolleyes:

Such positive, helpful addition.

Thank you, Mr. Wolfchild. You never fail to enrich a thread you visit. :D

I think you should start more threads about the issues you find important or interesting.

Well I think that your educational contributions to this forum speak for themselves. You are a well known troll around here.

Still, Bike Forums wouldn't be the same without its ankle-biters.

Well said. I think most reasonable people would see these as sound guidelines for a rational debate. Forums are a great source of information, but the background noise can be deafening at times. Often I wonder if someone is just trolling or genuinely has other issues. I tend to fall for the trap of presuming most people are of sound, rational mind. But I have to conclude that this is a false presumption around here!

But it could be worse. There's a well known UK based mtb forum that I don't dare enter anymore because it was like a scene out of "One flew over the Cuckoo's nest"!

Have you ever visited the Advocacy and Safety forum? Please don't ... for you own good ... :D

Unless the proverbial wetting your pants in a dark suit analogy is an accomplishment.

Only very briefly out of curiosity for its reputation!

I really think the issue most of the time is that some people just cannot stand to be proven wrong. When they are, rather than admit they are wrong, they go to great lengths to try and prove they are right even when all the evidence is against them.

BTW, it looks like my "Bike Myths" thread has been closed by the mods. I think that was a wise decision. I stopped following it a few days ago.

At least I don't get warnings from the Mods for insulting people and calling people all kinds of names. Your lack of tolerance for anybody who doesn't use the newest high tech is well known and it seems that anybody who doesn't use the latest tech is a luddite and backwards. Using older simpler bike technology doesn't mean that the person is wrong or close minded to learning new things. Look at your first post in this thread, you use a word dick to describe anybody who doesn't agree with you.. Not very educational.

He did not. However, many people would say that totally misrepresenting what someone posted falls under the category of “being a dick.”

Why even bother to use derogatory words in a thread which is supposed to be educational and about learning ?...What exactly are we supposed to learn from this thread ?

"Don't be a dick" seems like a good guideline to me.

Because his vocabulary may be limited. Or he’s not very creative. Or both.

It has the advantage of directness and brevity, and brevity is the soul of wit.

...I don't think any of them will cut down on the posting, but I do think (personal opinion, based on experience, as is every thought expressed in this thread), that you have missed out on a lot of the dynamics here. The dynamics are, of course, driven by human nature, and to no small extent, by the medium.

...c'mon man. Who do you know here who does not profess a certain level of self styled expertise in what they post ?

...the internet is filled with opinion presented as fact. Sometimes, I think it's why Al Gore some unknown person invented it. Much of the "wrongness" that gets pointed out here is simply not based on fact. Surely you must understand this ? Otherwise, why would we live in such a deeply divided country ?

...as an example, I would ordinarily reference the recent "myths" discussions, closed at your request. But it's probably too soon.

...it's a bad idea, because it relies on some principle that is in direct violation of human knowledge. People who write stuff here are usually convinced that it is true, before they write it. They have come to some conclusion, rightly or wrongly, based on other stuff they have heard and read, So they will back up whatever they think with that same stuff. And sometimes it goes on for a very long time. Why this surprises you, or anyone else, surprises me, in turn.

...this one just makes me feel like you never heard about Diogenes. I'll leave it there.

...let us consider the fact, that this very thread, in and of itself, is an outgrowth of the very long and complete non discussion thread about "Bicycle myths we wish would die." Then consider that it was begun by someone who extended an argument over a simple point of lgical argument over a period of some days. And here we are.

Learning, real learning, is a complex phenomenon. There are actual real college courses, and stuff like research in cognitive science that treat of it. Kind of like physics, in that sense, but not nearly as exact and often it is resistant to mathematical analysis. If it were easy, everyone would be well educated. We could churn out a population of critical thinkers in one generation.

I don't come here to the General Cycling forum expecting much, any more. It has taken on a the nature of some kind of mean girls clique. I wasn't following along as it happened, but I do think the original purposes of "discussion" of general cycling topics for people who might have legitimate questions, as a learning tool, got lost in the transition to clever one liners and likes. Those are absolutely essential to the true internet experience. But let's be candid about how much they contribute to rational discussion, please.


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Perhaps. Which may explain why his initial post is so witless.

It appears the "don't be a dick" guideline really isn't taking root.

I bet you violated all those guidelines at one time or another, so did OP and so did every other human on this planet. I mean it's human nature to disagree and get into arguments and debates and talk out of their rear ends sometimes.

Name calling again ?...this is shaping up to be a very educational thread.

Sorry. I'll try to do better.

I see the usual trolls have arrived. Like moths to a flame.