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Just my opinion

Old 09-15-23, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Bald Paul
As they say, opinions are like.. well, let's just call them the exit point of the human digestive system. Everyone has one and thinks theirs is the only one that doesn't stink.
I think if you read my post I have said my opinion is no more important than yours

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Old 09-15-23, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by plumberroy
I think if you read my post I have said my opinion is more important than yours
I'm crushed. Really.
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Old 09-15-23, 10:45 AM
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Just My Opinion

Online forums have become havens for people that don't like change.
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Old 09-15-23, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by prj71
Gravity = Bikes Direct = Bike Shaped Object.
Ummm ... yeah, the voice of ignorance speaks with great confidence, also.

Anyone who actually has a clue about BikesDirect know that BD sells bikes which are basically a few years behind the big manufacturers. Prices and quality range from entry-level "real" bike to Ultegra- and DA-equipped carbon.

With BD you don't get eh "Latest, Greatest" but you get what was great--or standard--in bike shops five years ago, which is extremely good compared to what was sold even five years before that .... Even BD loss-leader bargain bikes are a cut or two above Walmart. The good stuff is actually pretty good. Go and actually visit the site, check the specs .... learn a little.

Or not. This is, after all, BF.
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Old 09-15-23, 10:49 AM
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I am pretty weird, in that I can appreciate a wide range of esthetic options ... some folks hit a single style and cannot see anything else .... I wouldn't call them "narrow-minded'," or "small-minded," or "closed-minded," .... on a site where I could get tagged for insulting members. I would say that limited views are limiting, and there is that adage about open minds and parachutes ...

I do have to admit, I am less than thrilled by fat bikes with skinny forks ...
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Old 09-15-23, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by smd4
fify.

This isn't an argument about technology. Actually, I believe you're the first one to bring technology into a discussion concerning bike aesthetics. Where did your misunderstanding occur?
Effectively, that is the elephant in the room. Why not a comparison between the aesthetics of a 70's era top-end Italian road machine and a current Surly Midnight Special? Because the OP is like the kid yelling "FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, in the schoolyard, hoping we comply. From my perspective, your Cinelli is a gorgeous representation of a bicycle of its era, as is the latest Colnago C68 of a modern bike. Both deserve a place in the Museum of Art and Design.
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Old 09-15-23, 11:13 AM
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My ideal for a beautiful bike often includes some kind of old timey, hand-build, lugged steel frame. But I feel some of what's available today is really nice looking too. A one piece stem and handlebar, cables routed internally (technically just a few hydraulic lines, and no shift cables because wireless electronic shifting), moderately deep carbon rims, smooth, flowing lines on the carbon frame, a seat mast that gets cut to length one time and has no joints below the mast topper. These bikes are really an example of form following function, and from that perspective they are better than any vintage steel ride.

The lovely steel bikes from the 1960s to mid-80s (especially Italian) are beautiful to me in the same way as a mid-60s Jaguar XKE or Alfa Romeo Giulia. Modern high end bikes are more analogous to a recent Ferrari, McLaren, or the like. Which one would I choose to enter a race? That answer should be obvious, and I feel that to a great extent beauty is as beauty does.

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Old 09-15-23, 11:16 AM
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For those who think all modern bikes are ugly. Do you find that most/all other modern things are ugly too? If so I would suggest you may have simply lost touch with the present world and probably have a pretty cynical outlook on modern life in general.
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Old 09-15-23, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by smd4
So you're equating a Cinelli Supercorsa or a 1985 Paramount with a garbage scow? Nice.
my taste iz fact
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Old 09-15-23, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
For those who think all modern bikes are ugly. Do you find that most/all other modern things are ugly too? If so I would suggest you may have simply lost touch with the present world and probably have a pretty cynical outlook on modern life in general.
Someone once made the following observation, which I think is true for many people:
Everything invented before you were born is taken for granted.
Something invented between your birth and your 35th year is a good idea, and you're going to figure out how to make money with it.
Anything invented after you turn 35 is from the devil.
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Old 09-15-23, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
For those who think all modern bikes are ugly. Do you find that most/all other modern things are ugly too? If so I would suggest you may have simply lost touch with the present world and probably have a pretty cynical outlook on modern life in general.

...I am so lost in today's world, that it would be very difficult to produce value judgements about it.
I don't mind, and my impression is the world pretty much ignores me anyway. I share this with most people.

I do have many more opinions about what does and doesn't work in architecture. But this is not an architecture forum.
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Old 09-15-23, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Effectively, that is the elephant in the room. Why not a comparison between the aesthetics of a 70's era top-end Italian road machine and a current Surly Midnight Special? Because the OP is like the kid yelling "FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, in the schoolyard, hoping we comply. From my perspective, your Cinelli is a gorgeous representation of a bicycle of its era, as is the latest Colnago C68 of a modern bike. Both deserve a place in the Museum of Art and Design.
I don't disagree with you about them both being in the museum. But there are plenty of things in museums that I don't find attractive. "Fountain" by Marcel Duchamp, for example.

I do disagree that technological advances are "the elephant in the room." I spent some time at a high-end bike shop yesterday, something I haven't done in years, examining up-close some of Shimano's finest wares, and I was duly impressed with the quality and workmanship. I have no doubt that the parts function beyond compare. Did I like the looks of the new parts? Nope.
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Old 09-15-23, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
An art critic would say that the fat tires and the skinny tubing are not in balance.
I would disagree with that particular art critic...Personally i think a bike frame made from skinny round steel tubing together with bigger tires are aesthetically balanced.
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Old 09-15-23, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by big john

Like this? It's not ugly. It's simple and utilitarian, but looks good imho.
Perfect looking bike and very functional and practical too. I like it.
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Old 09-15-23, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
For those who think all modern bikes are ugly. Do you find that most/all other modern things are ugly too? If so I would suggest you may have simply lost touch with the present world and probably have a pretty cynical outlook on modern life in general.
Speaking as a guy who spends a lot of time helping operate a steam locomotive, I've got to say much of the design work in today's world is lacking. I much prefer the Chrystler building to the glass cubes that pass for offices today. Victorian homes hold my attention far longer than the vinyl-clad pre-fab homes of today. Fountain pens write much nicer and are far more rewarding to use than plastic Bic ballpoints. I definitely prefer my automatic analog watches to anything digital. The list can go on and on.

I use an iPhone daily and have satellite TV and streaming services, so I don't feel out of touch at all. Neither do I believe that I am at all cynical. But I do appreciate what came before.
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Old 09-15-23, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Broctoon
Someone once made the following observation, which I think is true for many people:
Everything invented before you were born is taken for granted.
Something invented between your birth and your 35th year is a good idea, and you're going to figure out how to make money with it.
Anything invented after you turn 35 is from the devil.
My sense is that's a human thing, and is particularly strong in US culture. I think it can be overcome, but typically takes some effort.
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Old 09-15-23, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
For those who think all modern bikes are ugly. Do you find that most/all other modern things are ugly too? If so I would suggest you may have simply lost touch with the present world and probably have a pretty cynical outlook on modern life in general.
Not all modern bikes are ugly, just like not all modern things are ugly....but I will have to say that modern cars, pick - up trucks and SUVs are uglier than that ones from 30 -40 years ago. I just love the look of the older boxy square shaped body trucks.
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Old 09-15-23, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bald Paul
I'm crushed. Really.
Sorry I meant to say no more important than yours. I was heading out the door and didn't proof read
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Old 09-15-23, 01:02 PM
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@plumberroy deftly escapes the list of subterraneans .... provisionally.

But I am mystified by this word .... "proofread"?

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Old 09-15-23, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
@plumberroy deftly escapes the list of subterraneans .... provisionally.

But I am mystified by this word .... "proofread"?

Mrs John worked as a professional proof reader with top secret clearance. She can pick a document to pieces in every way. The problem with that is stuff on tv or the internet gets to her. The spelling and punctuation errors are just the start. It makes her good at word games, though.
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Old 09-15-23, 01:15 PM
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Just for an example of modern built stuff vs older . I changed departments a while back and have to work on tube system now on the transfer unit that sends a tube down the right pipe there is a motor and chain to spin the transfer tube. On the real old ones there is a chain tensioner. The newer ones tension the chain by tightening the bolts on the motor mount until you flex the sheet metal that it is bolted to 1/16th of an inch.
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Old 09-15-23, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by big john
Mrs John worked as a professional proof reader with top secret clearance. She can pick a document to pieces in every way. The problem with that is stuff on tv or the internet gets to her. The spelling and punctuation errors are just the start. It makes her good at word games, though.
I watch re-runs of "Baa Baa Black Sheep" and I go crazy whenever I see the "Meatball Circus" episode where the Black Sheep use Japanese planes to sneak through and torpedo a Japanese aircraft carrier. The Japanese radar operator spots the planes, but tells his commander not to worry about the incoming planes because, "there ours."

Ooph.
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Old 09-15-23, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by plumberroy
I have been scrolling through new bikes lately. I don't need another bike for the record. I have come to the conclusion that 90% of new bikes are just fugly.
You are only looking for N+1+1+1+1... Given the many hundreds of options on the market, 10% un-fugly bikes could result in you owning scores of new/used beautiful bikes. What's the problem? Where's the beef? Tig welded 4130 is a strange stage from which to judge beauty. Elmer Fudd probably wouldn't like visiting The Louvre or El Prado, imho.

Cwazy wabbit,...but a nice ride with Crossover driveline
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Old 09-15-23, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by plumberroy
Just for an example of modern built stuff vs older . I changed departments a while back and have to work on tube system now on the transfer unit that sends a tube down the right pipe there is a motor and chain to spin the transfer tube. On the real old ones there is a chain tensioner. The newer ones tension the chain by tightening the bolts on the motor mount until you flex the sheet metal that it is bolted to 1/16th of an inch.
wut?
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Old 09-15-23, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by big john
Mrs John worked as a professional proof reader with top secret clearance. She can pick a document to pieces in every way. The problem with that is stuff on tv or the internet gets to her. The spelling and punctuation errors are just the start. It makes her good at word games, though.
Ask her how she feels about "honed in on" versus "homed in on," and "centered around" versus "centered on," and "[anything]-centric" versus "[anything]-centered."

There are more where those came from (versus "There's more where those came from").

Word games: the very first time I played Scrabble, the first word I put down was "japan." I was challenged on the basis of allegedly having used a proper noun. Ha. (The European furniture finish that imitated the black enamel finish used on some traditional Japanese furniture, first seen in the West at the Paris International Exposition of 1867, is called a "japan" finish. The process is known as "japanning.")
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