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Riding out of the saddle difficulty

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Riding out of the saddle difficulty

Old 09-27-23, 04:59 PM
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I don't think cyclists are "pulling up on the bars." Cyclists (as in the track cycling example immediately above) are pressing so hard with their legs against gearing so high that they are driving their bodies upward .... they are using leverage off the bars to push or hold their bodies down so the force reacts through the pedals. They are not lifting the bars, they are fighting the resistance with their whole bodies ... effectively driving their bodies down from the bars.

If they were actually lifting the bars they'd wheelie.
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Old 09-27-23, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tomm Willians
Want to ask about this technique as I’m finding it surprisingly exhausting and incapable of doing it for very long at all. I consider myself at least a moderately conditioned cyclist doing centuries a few times a year and around 200,000’ annual climbing numbers. At times that I try riding out of the saddle, it’s not long at all before I sit back down. I have specific points along a favorite route where I intentionally work on it but I’ll be damned if I can see any improvement.
It is more of a “have no more gears” necessity for me or a variety to wake up the butt thing. Or attack the hammer race sim ride.

Either way I find which bike I am on makes or breaks it being enjoyable or a chore. TT bike, absolute chore. Aero road bike with low stack and long reach, not as bad as the TT but not ideal. Cyclocross bike with more stack less reach, very fun and ideal feel.
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Old 09-28-23, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
I don't think cyclists are "pulling up on the bars." Cyclists (as in the track cycling example immediately above) are pressing so hard with their legs against gearing so high that they are driving their bodies upward .... they are using leverage off the bars to push or hold their bodies down so the force reacts through the pedals. They are not lifting the bars, they are fighting the resistance with their whole bodies ... effectively driving their bodies down from the bars.

If they were actually lifting the bars they'd wheelie.
“Pulling up” on the bars is not the same as “lifting” them.

Pulling up means exerting force up on the underside of the bar so that the reaction force of the bar pushes your hands down and keeps your upper body attached to the bike. When pedaling forces are larger than gravitational constraints, this is required.

At lesser pedaling force, there will be a net force of the body COG trying to fall and rotate down around the seat contact point that requires the hands to push down and bear weight and the reaction force from the top of the bars pushes up and keeps us in place.

Lifting the bars would require a net torque rotating you and the front of the bike around the rear wheel contact point: “a wheelie”. This becomes a problem on very steep inclines.

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Old 09-28-23, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ofajen
Lifting the bars would require a net torque rotating you and the front of the bike around the rear wheel contact point: “a wheelie”. This becomes a problem on very steep inclines.
You don't have to be pulling up (lifting) on the bars to do a "wheelie" on a steep climb. Simply pedaling can do the trick.

My front wheel starts lifting on each downwards pedal stroke around 13%. I can keep the front wheel down for a while by lowering my chest to the bars, but that's good only up to about 15%. At no time am I lifting the bars, but I do pull back on them to keep me from sliding off the back of the saddle. Above 15%, I'm standing any way. Then the problem becomes rear wheel traction.
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Old 09-28-23, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep

Either way I find which bike I am on makes or breaks it being enjoyable or a chore. TT bike, absolute chore. Aero road bike with low stack and long reach, not as bad as the TT but not ideal. Cyclocross bike with more stack less reach, very fun and ideal feel.
Yep. Geometry really makes a difference. My MTB CX bike may not look like it's a climber, but with everything balanced for standing on steep inclines, it's very easy to control and not spin out etc. I have the bars almost over the front axle, and the rear wheel is pretty "tight". Easy to get a balanced OOS position.

It's also a rider weight (in a relative sense), if you are overweight then it's way harder to sustain. I had a pretty major weight fluctuation, and then it became very obvious. I treat OOS like riding in the drops. Every ride I incorporate both.
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Old 09-28-23, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
You don't have to be pulling up (lifting) on the bars to do a "wheelie" on a steep climb. Simply pedaling can do the trick.

My front wheel starts lifting on each downwards pedal stroke around 13%. I can keep the front wheel down for a while by lowering my chest to the bars, but that's good only up to about 15%. At no time am I lifting the bars, but I do pull back on them to keep me from sliding off the back of the saddle. Above 15%, I'm standing any way. Then the problem becomes rear wheel traction.
Absolutely. And it gets more complex if the steep incline is loose gravel! I use flat pedals and shoes I can run in, so it’s never a problem to just get off and run or walk the bike up the really difficult ones.

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Old 09-28-23, 11:53 AM
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This is OOS climbing geometry template. This is Marco Pantani's bike. He would ride out of the saddle for an hour at a time. He would climb in the drops, and you can see where the drops coincide with front axle. Also note the position of the saddle relative to the rear wheel. He was a diminutive man, so his stack height is "high" due to the fact that he is running 700c wheels. Look at the saddle to bar drop.
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Old 09-28-23, 01:08 PM
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I'm pretty sure any bike Pantani (or Contador, or any of the other OOS pedal dancers) hopped on magically became "climbing bikes".
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Old 09-28-23, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wheelreason
I'm pretty sure any bike Pantani (or Contador, or any of the other OOS pedal dancers) hopped on magically became "climbing bikes".
Yeah. The diagrams and analysis from Bontrager is more likely to apply to the vast majority of riders. Most riders will not prefer to climb in the sprinting position.

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Old 09-28-23, 05:06 PM
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It seems that only cyclist who are 50 - 100 pounds overweight and lack fitness and coordination, that find riding out of a saddle such a big issue. Any fit and well coordinated human being who isn't overweight shouldn't have a problem riding standing up on the pedals.
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Old 09-29-23, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
It seems that only cyclist who are 50 - 100 pounds overweight and lack fitness and coordination, that find riding out of a saddle such a big issue. Any fit and well coordinated human being who isn't overweight shouldn't have a problem riding standing up on the pedals.
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