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How do you steer?

Old 12-04-23, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Troul
<--- waiting for bluetooth/wireless HDMI steering tech to happen.
You will be so screwed when the batteries unexpectedly die - because you know they will.
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Old 12-04-23, 10:32 PM
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I don't think gyroscopic action has much to do with anything other than how hard it is to turn the bars. The countersteer is to set up lean. Think about it, If you just go into the turn balanced upright on the line you were just riding and just turned, you would be steering the bike out from under you. Left turn? You better set up the left lean before you steer that bike left. To come out of the turn, you steer the bike back under you.
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Old 12-04-23, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rsbob
You will be so screwed when the batteries unexpectedly die - because you know they will.
ya haven't heard of the AI batteries? They figure out how to charge themselves!
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Old 12-04-23, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
I don't think gyroscopic action has much to do with anything other than how hard it is to turn the bars. The countersteer is to set up lean.
And the reason why you lean, instead of simply steering to the left or right, when you countersteer is because, as you are fighting the bars to turn the handlebars, the force that is directed against the front wheel ... twists because of gyroscopic forces. Those same forces also stabilizes the new, not quite vertical, and (hopefully) not quite horizontal, orientation of you and your bike while you are banked over.
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Old 12-05-23, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbob
You will be so screwed when the batteries unexpectedly die - because you know they will.
And yet, the overzealous crowd would force everyone into buying and using electric cars if they have their way!

I guess the two extra wheels in cars must make the magic happen. 😉
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Old 12-05-23, 04:19 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
And the reason why you lean, instead of simply steering to the left or right, when you countersteer is because, as you are fighting the bars to turn the handlebars, the force that is directed against the front wheel ... twists because of gyroscopic forces. Those same forces also stabilizes the new, not quite vertical, and (hopefully) not quite horizontal, orientation of you and your bike while you are banked over.
It has been demonstrated many times that gyroscopic forces are not significant in bicycle handling. You can remove them completely (with counter-rotating wheels etc) and still have a stable bike. That video I posted earlier shows a few interesting examples and there is this study by a Cambridge University Engineering Dr.

Hugh Hunt - Cambridge University - Are Gyroscopic Effects Significant When Riding A Bicycle ?

The gyroscopic forces do appear to aid in self-steering a riderless bicycle pushed down a hill, but even then they are not strictly required. Again see the video for a clear demo of a bike self-steering with no gyroscopic forces. Basically the gyroscopic forces are simply not strong enough to play a significant role in riding a bike.
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Old 12-05-23, 04:40 AM
  #82  
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How do you call QuickBooks?
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Old 12-05-23, 06:40 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
It has been demonstrated many times that gyroscopic forces are not significant in bicycle handling. You can remove them completely (with counter-rotating wheels etc) and still have a stable bike. That video I posted earlier shows a few interesting examples and there is this study by a Cambridge University Engineering Dr.

Hugh Hunt - Cambridge University - Are Gyroscopic Effects Significant When Riding A Bicycle ?

The gyroscopic forces do appear to aid in self-steering a riderless bicycle pushed down a hill, but even then they are not strictly required. Again see the video for a clear demo of a bike self-steering with no gyroscopic forces. Basically the gyroscopic forces are simply not strong enough to play a significant role in riding a bike.
People who "know" that gyroscopic forces contribute significantly to bicycle stability will not be persuaded by mere experimental evidence.
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Old 12-05-23, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
People who "know" that gyroscopic forces contribute significantly to bicycle stability will not be persuaded by mere experimental evidence.
You are not wrong! I think itís just one of those things where intuition often leads to the wrong conclusion.
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Old 12-05-23, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Saw this guy while I was touring out west. He knew how to steer steers.



.
No steers in that picture, though. The younger bull(3rd from back) the only possibility. Can't tell cause his legs are blocking the view. On a sidenote, if a person has affinity for Herefords, I'd suggest watching the classic movie "The Rare Breed." Lot's of stars in that one.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060884/

Last edited by seypat; 12-05-23 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 12-05-23, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat
No steers in that picture, though.
So, I guess the rancher didn't know how to steer. See what I did there?
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Old 12-05-23, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
So, I guess the rancher didn't know how to steer. See what I did there?
Those are high end breeding bulls and a cow/calf combo. Doubtful any will end up on a dinner plate. Instead, they'll all enjoy an awesome life of eating the best grazing, great shelter and producing more high end Herefords. That's it. Pampered their whole lives. I wish my life was that good! I have a good life, but not that good. The bull in the front and maybe middle of the back trio are the only ones of breeding maturity. The other 2 are not quite there yet. You might find this hard to believe, but to that rancher, those animals will be as tame as your cat is to you.

Last edited by seypat; 12-05-23 at 08:05 AM.
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Old 12-05-23, 08:54 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
.
...one of the best attractions at the California State Fair, for a few years, was some guy who had put together one of those reverse steering bicycles (with two head tubes, the bars joined to the fork steerer using a pinion gear mechanism). He hired a cute young girl as his barker, and offered a hundred bucks to anyone who could ride the thing 100 feet. At five bucks a try, he was pulling in money like you wouldn't believe.

I once sat nearby for about 15 minutes, sipping on some bottled water to rehydrate. The line of guys who wanted to do it never got any shorter than ten. Nobody won.
Also is at Sturgis buffalo chip every year. $5 to try and win $100 and never saw anyone do it.
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Old 12-05-23, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by pepperbelly
I rode today and made a point to see how I steer.
At the speeds I ride I found I simply lean into a turn.
I intentionally tried to counter steer to move to one side or the other. It didnít work. The bike simply moved in the direction I turned the handlebars. I expected this. On a motorcycle at slow speed it is the same- you steer into a turn like going around a corner.
counter steering generally works at ~15mph and up....try riding 25-30mph and push on the left bar end with your left hand and see which way you go.
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Old 12-05-23, 09:45 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Alan K
And yet, the overzealous crowd would force everyone into buying and using electric cars if they have their way!

I guess the two extra wheels in cars must make the magic happen. 😉
Please take any further comments to the political forum, since they are off limits in all other forums. Thank you
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Old 12-05-23, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat
Those are high end breeding bulls and a cow/calf combo. Doubtful any will end up on a dinner plate. Instead, they'll all enjoy an awesome life of eating the best grazing, great shelter and producing more high end Herefords. That's it. Pampered their whole lives. I wish my life was that good! I have a good life, but not that good. The bull in the front and maybe middle of the back trio are the only ones of breeding maturity. The other 2 are not quite there yet. You might find this hard to believe, but to that rancher, those animals will be as tame as your cat is to you.
Thanks. Interesting, and good to know.

The beasts were looking at me warily. I wanted to get closer but didn't have the nerve.

The rancher was really cool. He didn't mind me taking the photo. He actually asked me about my trip. I gave him a brief summary. He responded by doffing his hat and saying, "Sounds like a plan!" One of the cooler experiences I have had on tour.
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Old 12-05-23, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jadmt
counter steering generally works at ~15mph and up....
fify

Counter steering works at all speeds greater than zero.
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Old 12-05-23, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
fify

Counter steering works at all speeds greater than zero.
maybe I should have said effects are felt best at ~15mph or so on up .....I actually made a fairly decent living driving motorcycles...
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Old 12-05-23, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jadmt
counter steering generally works at ~15mph and up....try riding 25-30mph and push on the left bar end with your left hand and see which way you go.
Yeah, but what happens if you push on the left bar end with your right hand?
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Old 12-05-23, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Yeah, but what happens if you push on the left bar end with your right hand?
you will most likely crash give it a go and report back
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Old 12-05-23, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Yeah, but what happens if you push on the left bar end with your right hand?
Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
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Old 12-05-23, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
It has been demonstrated many times that gyroscopic forces are not significant in bicycle handling.
I wasn't talking about a bicycle. That should have been clear, because later on I do actually imply that the gyroscopic forces of a bicycle wheel are insignificant vs a motorcycle. I didn't realize the other poster was talking about a bicycle. They mentioned countersteering to induce bank. God help me, thanks to this thread, I actually paid attention to each and every turn I made on my 9mi commute this morning. I didn't counter-steer a single corner. I conciously turned the bars in the direction I needed to turn and it must have worked because ... here I am. That's proof enough for me.
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Old 12-05-23, 01:40 PM
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Steering a bike is almost as exhausting as figuring out how I actually steer it. Until they come out with an e-bike with power steering, I'm done riding.
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Old 12-05-23, 01:52 PM
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By the way, the masterful way indyfabz (IIRC) countered the counter-steering contretemps by steering the topic over to steers---magnificent. ("By the time we got to Livestock . . . "---Joanie Mitchell.)
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Old 12-05-23, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
By the way, the masterful way indyfabz (IIRC) countered the counter-steering contretemps by steering the topic over to steers---magnificent. ("By the time we got to Livestock . . . "---Joanie Mitchell.)
I think that was CSNY.

And believe it or not, I once rode from Port Jervis, NY to the site of Woodstock during a long weekend, hub and spoke cycling weekend. (I have the cue sheet in my office desk.) One of the participants at the weekend had worked procurement at Woodstock. She told us she didn't remember much of the performances because she was not a big music fan and was busy dealing with people like Wavy Gravy and the Hog Farmers.
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