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Pay to make the bike fit ?

Old 03-16-24, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
My thought on this is that possibly Trek is sending the wrong seatpost size out originally. This website from an LBS shows the bike and you can see how high the seat is compared to the bar. Granted this is a bike where many would want a very aggressive position with a low bar. I don’t need that. I don’t know if you were yo start with the shorter 135 post, can you raise it to get the more aggressive position. Or would you need to order the 175. Which begs the question am I getting the wrong bike ?. Which is a possible yes. And yes it’s a great deal which colors the decision making process. Much to ponder

https://www.brandscycle.com/product/...7-397046-1.htm
Could be just the wrong bike like you said. Looking at the link yeah that is a very aggressive looking bike.

But I shouldn't judge harshly since I did buy a lightweight race frame for the hilly roads around here and I do have spacers flipped the 7 degree stem to allow for a more comfortable ride position. But damn it's comfortable and fun to ride.

I think a smaller frame is easier to fit than larger if supply and price is a big factor. Can't make a frame smaller.

Last edited by zymphad; 03-16-24 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 03-16-24, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by zymphad
Could be just the wrong bike like you said. Looking at the link yeah that is a very aggressive looking bike.
I keep 5 bikes, 2 being mt bike, then a touring bike, and a Gravel bike mostly ridden as a road bike with wide street tires, plus a lighter road ďracingĒ bike that gets half my road mileage and is used on the fast group rides. Thus the Emonda or Madone would work, but I hate the design of the Madone and I donít need another relaxed high stem road bike, I have 2. Plus I want Di2, have it and AXS on 3 bikes, Iím a sucker for electronic shifting. And thereís nit much out there and itís a great price. Sigh.
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Old 03-17-24, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
I'm am potentially buying a new Trek Emonda road bike, it's a very good deal at an otherwise nice local shop. A quickie test ride tells me the bike fits perfectly in terms of top tube length and stem. That's dead on the same as my other road bikes. Problem develops in that Trek ships this size 56 with a proprietary 175mm carbon seat post, which puts the seat about 4 cm too high for my use. It goes no lower. Shop and Trek tells me they make a shorter post that would likely put the post pretty much where I need the seat, and Trek charges $160 for the shorter post.

My initial attitude is Trek should just allow a free post swap to get the bike to fit the customer. This is another reason I hate proprietary crap like this

If I choose to pony up the $160, what am I supposed to do with the longer post ?, can't imagine I will recoup my cost by selling on e-bay.

Thoughts appreciated.
Cant you just saw off an inch or two yourself, and then set the height where you want it.

This smacks of the same deal as buying a car tire. In both cases you pay a ton of money, and then have to pay more to use them.
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Old 03-17-24, 08:42 AM
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I'm with 3Alarmer on this one ... what is the o.p.'s cycling inseam? Let's have the hard numbers. By the time we get to 35 posts we should have this all sorted.
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Old 03-17-24, 09:03 AM
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You seem to know what you like in sizing. I'm an unusual fit myself and everything off the shelf might not work for me. It sounds like you have the right size except for the seat post cap.
You might be able to sell it because the things do go bad. A lady I know had a shop replace her saddle and they didn't tighten it enough and the top of the cap rotated and damaged the post. She had to buy another one and the shop wouldn't help and she paid almost $200. I know others who have had them come loose but not get damaged.

If it comes loose and the top rotates so the seat rails are on the wrong side of the little nubs you can fix it by disassembling the cap, instead of trying to force it back up.
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Old 03-17-24, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by VegasJen
For me, something that simple would be a deal breaker. Not so much for the $160, but what other proprietary $**t are you going ro have to deal with later on down the line?

Way back in another life, I sold industrial equipment. I often came up on customers that would throw a competing bid at me and ask if I could match it. Most times I could not. I would explain to my customer those sellers were giving it away on the front end for the back end sales. The way I phrased it was, it's like getting married and you're the b****.
One is always free to not buy.
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Old 03-17-24, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
I can do that, a different shop has a 54 on the floor, same color also discounted. Concern is I would likely need a 12 or 13 stem to get the reach into the range of bikes I already ride. 13 gets into handling questions.
If you go to a 54cm frame the stack height will be lower and give you more bar drop from the saddle. If that isn't what you want, then again, look for a different model of bike that has both the frame reach and stack so that you don't have to go to the extremes of changing out so much stuff.

What didn't you like about the Trek Domane or Trek Checkpoint? They have a higher stack and bar height for a given size. So you can get the smaller frame size and not be as concerned with having the bars drop from the saddle to great. But you will probably have to increase the stem length, unless you do well with a large bend in your elbows that many like.

Last edited by Iride01; 03-17-24 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 03-17-24, 10:50 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by VegasJen
For me, something that simple would be a deal breaker. Not so much for the $160, but what other proprietary $**t are you going ro have to deal with later on down the line?

Way back in another life, I sold industrial equipment. I often came up on customers that would throw a competing bid at me and ask if I could match it. Most times I could not. I would explain to my customer those sellers were giving it away on the front end for the back end sales. The way I phrased it was, it's like getting married and you're the b****.
I wonder: aren't modern bikes designed so the head tube height and the seat tube can accommodate a specific range of the rider dimensions? 4cm is a pretty big adjustment for just about anything on the bike. I think your dealer should be evaluating your body dimensions to see what bike settings would be your best sizing, and see what bike model will give you the the best compromise you can get from Trek.

Can any Trek dealer measure you on a fitter setup (sorry, I don't know what models are used today), and find our what set of dimensions are correct for you? If so you can compare those to the dimensions of your preferred Emonda and see if Trek has a better plan to make the bike fit you or get you a bike which does fit you.

If you say "My new bike has to be an Emonda," you might be excessively limiting the dealer's ability to get you the best possible fit. I would summarize as follows: Find the numbers which define your best possible fit, find one or several bicycles which best match that target machine, Look carefully at the bike to see if there are any new negative points, see if an example bike can be set up to verify the new fitting targets. If it all looks good, buy the bike.

Last edited by Road Fan; 03-17-24 at 11:14 AM. Reason: sloppy edits, does not make sense.
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Old 03-17-24, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
If
What didn't you like about the Trek Domane or Trek Checkpoint? T.
Checkpoint is their gravel bike. I have one, don't need another.

Domane has the head tube and seat tube suspension stuff, I want to avoid that, don't need it on a go fast road bike.

Last edited by Steve B.; 03-17-24 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 03-17-24, 11:08 AM
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What do you owe Brands Cycle? Do some sourcing online and see if you can get exactly what you want for the discounted price. Brands can still have the service if you don't diy.
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Old 03-17-24, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Cant you just saw off an inch or two yourself, and then set the height where you want it.
See post #6. This type of seat mast canít be shortened.
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Old 03-17-24, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
Checkpoint is their gravel bike. I have one, don't need another\

Domane as the head tube and seat tube suspension stuff, I want to avoid that, don't need it on a go fast road bike.
Okay, but just make sure you understand that the Checkpoint has the most relaxed fit of the three. The Domane is in the middle. And the Emonda the most aggressive fit. I don't know what type of fit you are after. Some people can ride bikes made for all the different types of fit and others only like a certain fit.

If you do like the more aggressive fits, then see what the 54 cm frame feels like. I'd rather have more seat post exposed over the top tube to help buffer the road forces. But of course other things about a bike can change what gets transmitted through the seat post and ultimately to you. And regardless even on the 56 with a 4 cm lower post it might not be much difference at all.

But if you like the 54 that will have more bar to saddle drop than the 56cm, then that might be the one to get. I don't know what tier model Emonda you are looking at, but the lower tier models still have normal stems that you can change easily to make up for that shorter top tube length for not as much money as the integrated bar/stem of the upper tier models.
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Old 03-17-24, 11:20 AM
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Geezer here. There are really good reasons for the old, ubiquitous 27.2 round seatposts on thousands and thousands of bikes, and the not as common but still plentiful 26.8 of (I'm guessing) 30 years of Japanese bikes. They make getting the seat height right, the single most important dimension on a bike frame, easy. (Offering the correct seat height as a $160 "option"? Wow!

And seat height isn't the only important fit issue addressed by the seatpost. Where the seat can be located fore and aft can be varied easily by using a different post with different setback. A trip to a bike coop will often yield a fair amount of setback choices in those popular seatpost diameters. Plus, custom seatposts can be made with any setback you can dream up. (For roughly the price of that Trek "option". When you sell that bike you can plunk that custom post on your next - assuming a bike with the old boring post diameter.

Says he with two Ti Cycles 27.2 seatposts with 60mm setback. An old SR-100 MTB post with adjustable setback. Nitto lugged steel with I forget how much, but lots of setback. All posts that will see another bike if I outlast these bikes. Note that these are all posts that would never come on a stock performance road bike. To get those bikes to work well, I have to slam the seats back in stock (even very nice, top of the line stock) posts to the point of compromising seat rail strength.
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Old 03-17-24, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Outrider1
What do you owe Brands Cycle? Do some sourcing online and see if you can get exactly what you want for the discounted price. Brands can still have the service if you don't diy.
Brands has a discounted 54 in stock. They do not have a 56 in stock, would need to order and there is no sale price on an ordered bike. As well, Trek no longer makes this bike in the color I want.

And @ roadfan, the Emonda in a 56 has a 15cm head tube. The bike I am riding currently in a 56 has a 16. That's not a huge difference.

In my mind, the real issue here is in "ye olden dayes", the manufacturers provided a generic seat post that had a goodly amount of adjustable travel, Ritchey, in house made, whatever, probably too much in some cases that saw folks on a too big bike with the post slammed all the way down. BUT you could get it to a useful position. Not the case with this bike. The posts are designed as long and short, they ship as long and if you want shorter you pay to get the shorter model. That's good business for Trek, not for the consumer.

I am not seeing this as the 56 is the wrong bike. Some folks think the ETT is a poor dimension for fit, it's not. It's a starting point that is more useful then seat tube dimension, which is totally useless for fit. ETT is a guideline for general length of the reach. You don't start usually by putting a person 5'6" on a 56, nor do you put a person 6 ft on a 54. It's a useful staring point for general fit. As stated earlier, I have ridden 7 different road bikes in 30 years that have used a 56 ETT and a 10 cm stem. They all fit. So this bike as a 56 with a 10 cm stem is a useful starting point except for the dumb design of the proprietary post. And for those saying try a 54, I will, there is one locally, but I have never used anything smaller then a 55 and that had a 12cm stem, which is why I migrated to a 56 and a shorter 10cm stem.

I will tell the shop to order the 135 post, install, test ride and see what It feels like.

And if it sounds like I've made up my mind, I havent purchased anything yet. There has been useful advice here (is why I posted)

Last edited by Steve B.; 03-17-24 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 03-17-24, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Outrider1
What do you owe Brands Cycle?
I'm gonna be specially mean, (like make him cry mean), to the next roadie that comes in, and when he regains his composure, i'm showing him this...
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Old 03-17-24, 01:39 PM
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No malice intended. It's a $6,000 bike. I'd think the retailer would find a way to make the potential customer feel whole and get the $160 seat post included somehow.
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Old 03-17-24, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Outrider1
No malice intended. It's a $6,000 bike. I'd think the retailer would find a way to make the potential customer feel whole and get the $160 seat post included somehow.
This is a not a Trek company store. The bike is heavily discounted so maybe no or little profit margin to eat the $160. Itís a VERY good deal for what it is, thus I think I will eat the $160. And not ever have I complained about paying the $160 except that Treks method of not using a more generic seat post with traditional flexibility in height is screwing the customer.
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Old 03-17-24, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Outrider1
No malice intended. It's a $6,000 bike. I'd think the retailer would find a way to make the potential customer feel whole and get the $160 seat post included somehow.
That $6k bike is being discounted as much as 20% these days. That leaves little margin to throw in free stuff. Itís all about the money numbers.
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Old 03-17-24, 02:22 PM
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I guess the gamble for the retailer would be to hope they make more than $160 back via service and parts.
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Old 03-17-24, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
This is a not a Trek company store. The bike is heavily discounted so maybe no or little profit margin to eat the $160. Itís a VERY good deal for what it is, thus I think I will eat the $160. And not ever have I complained about paying the $160 except that Treks method of not using a more generic seat post with traditional flexibility in height is screwing the customer.
You will really like the bike. I wanted a SL7, but couldnít find one in size 56. Ended up with SL6 with Di2. Fantastic bike.
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Old 03-17-24, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Outrider1
I guess the gamble for the retailer would be to hope they make more than $160 back via service and parts.
Bike retailers cannot afford to gamble these days. Bike store ownership is not as profitable as one might think. Thereís a reason a lot of indies sold out to Trek the last few years. Now starting to see Trek closing unprofitable stores.
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Old 03-17-24, 02:32 PM
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Then if I'm the customer, I'm not counting on the LBS and would work my best deal from wherever I can source it.
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Old 03-17-24, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Outrider1
No malice intended. It's a $6,000 bike. I'd think the retailer would find a way to make the potential customer feel whole and get the $160 seat post included somehow.
It seems like you doesn't understand how bicycle retail works. Actual bicycles are super low margin so while you think oh it is 6K so they must be swimming in money we aren't you might if really lucky make under 2k but these days you have to factor in all the shipping fees as many companies have stopped offering freight and plus you have the time and money building and storing it till it sells. It is accessories where the margins are a bit higher and then labor are higher than that but bikes especially on sale there is usually very little money on the table for the shop.

There are rare occasions when throwing in something that expensive (that is potentially also low margin) is sensible but a sale bike usually not. Trek has a reason for the seatpost as it is as they designed the bike for a specific purpose so getting the bike that fits is more crucial. Back in the day with a normal round seatpost you can get away with more but with seat-masts and fancy aero stuff it is usually designed for a specific sizing and not for a less aero fit.

Coming from a shop that frequently sold bikes around the 10k mark we did OK but it wasn't like we were just rolling in dough there is a lot of back end stuff that people don't ever think about it takes a lot of money to run a business and the bike business is not really about big profits it is doing something you love and getting people riding. Especially now with billionaires getting involved selling cheap and knockoff products en mass, it is a tougher market. Not to say you cannot be a shop or should be a shop but it is not a bunch of cartoon rich people it is hardworking folks who are doing what they love for very little money and sometimes dealing with some really awesome people and sometimes with some really not so awesome people.
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Old 03-17-24, 04:34 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to give such a comprehensive response. It may also help the OP understand that his spending $160 for the desired seatpost really would make sense in this instance.
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Old 03-17-24, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
It seems like you doesn't understand how bicycle retail works. Actual bicycles are super low margin so while you think oh it is 6K so they must be swimming in money we aren't you might if really lucky make under 2k but these days you have to factor in all the shipping fees as many companies have stopped offering freight and plus you have the time and money building and storing it till it sells. It is accessories where the margins are a bit higher and then labor are higher than that but bikes especially on sale there is usually very little money on the table for the shop.

There are rare occasions when throwing in something that expensive (that is potentially also low margin) is sensible but a sale bike usually not. Trek has a reason for the seatpost as it is as they designed the bike for a specific purpose so getting the bike that fits is more crucial. Back in the day with a normal round seatpost you can get away with more but with seat-masts and fancy aero stuff it is usually designed for a specific sizing and not for a less aero fit.

Coming from a shop that frequently sold bikes around the 10k mark we did OK but it wasn't like we were just rolling in dough there is a lot of back end stuff that people don't ever think about it takes a lot of money to run a business and the bike business is not really about big profits it is doing something you love and getting people riding. Especially now with billionaires getting involved selling cheap and knockoff products en mass, it is a tougher market. Not to say you cannot be a shop or should be a shop but it is not a bunch of cartoon rich people it is hardworking folks who are doing what they love for very little money and sometimes dealing with some really awesome people and sometimes with some really not so awesome people.
It usually surprises people when they learn that most privately owned businesses make their owners a salary level income (<$100k per year) at best. Profit margins for privately owned retail businesses typically range from 1.1% to 9.6%. That means you have to sell a lot of inventory to make a decent living at best.
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