Campy’s Xenon was Sora level, Mirage was Tiagra level, Veloce was 105, and then came Centaur (which still exists), Athena, Potenza…all while the more familiar Chorus, Record, Super Record hierarchy existed, and before Cues, Claris, or any Microshift did.

What was happening in 2009 when Xenon was dropped? The Asian bike boom was in full swing, with China open, Taiwan investing heavily, and carbon fiber rising rapidly.

Speaking of carbon fiber, Reynolds tubing (which itself weathered financial hardships including parent company bankruptcy in the late ‘90s) has some tubesets made to spec in Taiwan because “it makes much more sense with lead times and costs to do it this way” according to the CEO: https://road.cc/content/feature/rena...-frames-300667

I am aware that Campy used to have entry level components.
My point was that they don't have that now.
Campy chose to leave the entry level market- that is my point.

As for Reynolds producing one tube model in Asia, 520, what is your point? Yes, it is produced under contract by a company in Asia...but that has nothing to do with this discussion. Reynolds produces 631, 725, and 853 tubing in England and bike's in Asia are made with that tubing. Same thing is possible with drivetrain components.
Similarly, Continental tires made in Germany can head to Asia and be used on OEM spec'd bikes.

Components can come from Europe and be used in Asia OEM.

This reminds me of the death of the American watch industry. After WWII, there were 3 American watch companies left - Hamilton, Elgin, and Waltham*. They couldn't compete with Swiss and later Japanese competition, so they went under. Waltham first, followed by Elgin in 1968. Both of them became nothing but a name and set of trademarks, so now by the 1980s you'd see cheap watches at Kmart labeled "Waltham" or "Elgin", but with no tie at all to the original companies and their history.

Hamilton lasted just a little longer, and because they were seen as more prestigious, they had a more desirable brand. They were acquired by a Swiss company that eventually became Swatch. They no longer make watches in America, but they kept the brand alive and have made numerous watches that hark back to some of the more famous models, like the Boulton and especially the Ventura.

I could see Campy going either way - a name and set of trademarks that quickly become meaningless, or a subsidiary brand of a larger company, with at least some distinction between it and the rest of the products the larger company makes.

*(Bulova and Benrus have some claim to being American but were always hybrid Swiss/American companies, vs. Waltham, Elgin, and Hamilton which made and sold all their own movements in America, at least till 1950)

A niche market requires an aggressive marketing strategy and competitive products. Campagnolo failed to do that. And that's all that they had, no other markets.

TabA / SlotB

As a general statement, I'd say that's not true. I'd wager most companies that cater to a niche market put very little time and effort into marketing.

Look around you. Massive layoffs are happening in most industries at all levels. Campy may go under as are a lot of businesses these days.

Campagnolo's "fame' is based on antiquated designs that never really worked well in the first place..
i hear folks defend campy by saying they have parts available for their products, but those parts are needed way to frequently, IMO.
their stuff is so expensive that no Manufacturer orders their parts groups unless a customer demands it on a special order bike.

13 cog cassettes? Really? DUMB.
people need to ask "Campy experts" to find out which series their old campy stuff is since Campy can't seem to denote BASIC INFORMATION on their stuff.
the Rest of the world likes using Letters and Numbers on their parts,... not campy, "we'll make them GUESS!"

their disregard of the MTB World is a sign of either snobbery, or laziness... or both.
their inability to keep pace with the rest of the world is their downfall.

they named a parts group "Victory" even though it was the UGLIEST, cheapest made group, ever.

"if you want to ride your bike, use Shimano.. if you want it to look good hanging on a wall, use Campy"
sound familiar? that has been said on every road bike forum, ever.
i first heard it here, in the Mechanics subforum.

i've seen people rave about blue washers on a set of campy brakes, like they make some big difference?
seriously.
Campy is the only blame of their impending demise.
i've run into Several campy freehubs that have completely grenaded, internally... the rims attached show minimal use.
i'm sure there would be spare parts available... at a price higher than a new SRAM hub.... guess why those parts are around... you're GONNA Need them.
"Let's make OUR cassettes Different than the REST OF THE WORLD! That'll force the suckers... Errr, Customers to use only OUR PARTS when the garbage, err, newly minted campy pieces Fail!"

they still use the same parts group names they used FIVE DECADES AGO, but can't stamp a few numbers on any of it..
LAZY and ARROGANT are not good business traits.
"Oh, that's a Super Doupem' Post Victory Parade Derailleur....... you can tell by the few dabs of paint on it, and the word "Patent" cast into the same stupidly simple part of a long ago obsolete design they've sold for twenty years straight !!"
Campy design team at work... "hey, here's a great new innovation idea... let's Gold Plate a couple pieces on them, and put 'em in a cheap wood box, then increase the price by 10x !!! "

13 cog rear cassettes.. REALLY?
DUMB move.
i'm sure it all works "perfectly", once an experienced bike mechanic fiddles with it for a few hours.... as reported in these forums.

flame away, Campy Chumps.. you got ripped off... i'd be mad too :rolleyes:

Can you show us on this doll where Campagnolo hurt you?

Are Campy-raggers just butt-hurt by previous snobbery?

Fight fire with fire!

you blew your own match out, sparky. :lol:

campy hurt themselves, and their bank account is now drained.
so... "We'll Cut Back! that'll fix Everything we didn't do right for DECADES! "

designing and building less is the prescribed choice for accelerated failure.

What now? This is such an odd thing to ask/post.
It isn't a requirement to participate, just want to make sure you know that.

I am not astonished at all. Expensive spare parts and expensive groupsets as well as finnicky and fragile wheels and an absence from the Pro peloton as well as poor sales as OEM over the last two decades is a reason why Campagnolo has met this fate. Mismanagement and lack of creativity is what has caused this.

No.

"Blue brake washers" made me lose my jewels.....

The only Campagnolo product I have ever owned are 2 sets of Zonda wheels, which are fine wheels that were available at a user friendly price point. I could never justify the high cost of their components. When/if they fold the business, I believe they will be missed by only a small percentage of cyclists. IMO, they have been a niche manufacturer for many years, with little innovation. I believe the end is nigh. And, that is not going to cause much of a void for others to fill.

I used to not care for Campy but your demented rambling is really making me think I should give it a go :thumb:

Campagnolo’s history of innovation is unequaled. So much stuff, like internal cable routing, G3 wheel lacing, aero rims like Shamal and Bora, ceramic bearings, carbon fiber derailleurs and cranks, Ergopower shift ears and multi-gear shifting with Ultrashift, Hirth joint Ultratorque chainset, use of titanium like the Record seatpost. They were first to introduce 10, 11, 12 and 13 speed groupsets, the first with a compact drivetrain, the first tensile structure disc wheel, the N3W freehub that is uniquely backwards and forwards compatible between 10 and 13 speed cassettes.

Campy haven’t invented everything, but their history of innovation runs right up to today and is unequaled in the world of cyclling.

Rolex pumps Mega$ into advertising for their target market. Bernie's F1 gobbles up piles of it. And every ego magazine.
Check the ads in performance car publications.
Bike magazines have full page ads from companies that I never heard of. Multipage ads from the big guys

You need to get out more

If I see Snoop Dog and Martha doing a Patek ad I think I'll cry. I'm an Omega guy myself.

Red washers are faster. I expect to see these on Shimano anytime now.

You're conflating a niche market with a luxury market -- they're both small markets, but they're not the same thing.

What if you're a niche company AND a luxury company?

Any rich person could buy a watch. Not every rich person is interested in riding bikes.

Perhaps if you decide to go luxury, you'd better make sure you're accessible to as many rich people as possible, because they themselves are already a fraction of the population.

Campagnolo went after a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of comsumers, realized that fraction maths out to nearly zero. Oops.

I thought about this as well but I realized their innovations were not well executed or superior in performance. They were known for continuously missing the mark and that was the brand. When they finally did hit an excellent product very few people were willing to take the risk due to the countless other failures. I was on Campagnolo after my stint in the 70s for their 10 speed and 11 speed era, mainly for prestige reason reasons, always record or super record. I switched to Dura when Campagnolo went to 12 speed, and I realized how far behind their product was in performance overall. I made the switch for the lack of support for parts and all the specialty tools required to work on it from their goofy chain design to that overly complicated bottom bracket you mentioned.

Can you list some of these "countless failures?"

Analogizing to the American watch industry again - Hamilton and Elgin both tried to innovate their way out of their problems. Hamilton marketed the very first battery powered watch, and Elgin created a completely new self-winding movement, and a free-sprung balance which was also shock-absorbing. It didn't help, because their products were still too expensive and they were unable to sell them at a price that was profitable.