What exactly is a RetroGrouch...?
 

Hey, a little off topic but yeah, does anyone have a definition of this..? I couldn't seem to find one on-line. I like the word and the implied meaning though, 'tis funny. It seems to be used often by cyclist, computing/linux communities and others...

Your thoughts on this? What makes one a RG, are there different categories or RG's? Does one have to be a RG in various fields to qualify or is just cycling or computing or..... enough?

The Protoganists in the the movie "High Fidelity" could be classed as RG's in the music field i am guessing..

I supposse i'll come out of the closet: I am guessing i am a RetroGrouch as i am a self proclaimed "Evil Priest of Brooks" saddles, wished most people used a Tange Levin Headset and my main ride is a 20 to 35 year old Raleigh Twenty (though it sports many modern parts including the anti retro Nexus three speed hub).

RetroGrouch is a poster on this forum thats all I know. I never heard of the word out side of that.

I would guess that it would mean something to the effect of as a computing example, " I use vi damn it because it is the best text editor ever made. You don't need that stinking wisywig crap bah bah".

Or perhaps, "Downtube shifters were the last necessary piece of shifting equipment ever made. And only the friction ones. STI is a waste of money and is no where near as reliable damn it"

You know they like the old stuff and the defend it in a grouchy way? I dont know?

<< Downtube shifters were the last necessary piece of shifting equipment ever made. And only the friction ones. STI is a waste of money and is no where near as reliable damn it >>

Your point is what??

You mean like this?

BAH!!! You youngsters with your fancy pancy STI shifters. Back in the day we used real reliable downtube friction shifters. We didn't need any handholding to get it into the right gear back then!!

Curmudgeonly.

Wool shorts, friction shifters, steel.

Thinking about getting a boneshaker for critical mass.

grouch,yeah that's me,now leave me alone!

Hey now, even us old retrogrouches can appreciate STI, but you forgot leather saddles!

Walter Mathau was a retrogrouch.

"STI, it's the devils' work, I tell ya!"

Leather saddles? is there any other kind?

Why do I need a bike that weighs less than 25 lbs? BAH!



I remember one guy who used to post on usenet, about how he would ride his old, crummy bike and blast by roadies...etc. If he's that strong, great.... then get a road bike and race! Someone would love to have you on their team!

25 lbs? Dude, 25 lbs is a dream for me. My bike is double that. Does that make me a retrogrouch? I'm not proud, or advocating it though. It's just the way it is.

Hmm, my Fuji was just under 25lbs when I bought it, then I added the fenders, the M324 pedals, the handlebar bag, the Swing Grip, two bottle cages, the computer, the B17, the saddlebag and a blinkie (I won't count the panniers, since I don't always ride with them, though I should count the headlight, since it goes in the handlebar bag when not being used). I am not exceptionally fast, but I do drop a lot of alleged roadies. Why? Because I am the standard all poseurs must exceed to become a real roadie. :p

For years the only place I would see the word retrogrouch would
be to describe Grant Petersen of Rivendell fame. Several years ago
aluminum was king, titanium as god, and all anybody talked about was STI.

Grant was doing steel and friction and leather seats. He wasn't the only guy, but he made a cause of it, and that got him a little media attention.

A retrogrouch is somebody who does it the old fashioned way, because it's the better way. Friction shifters rarely need looking after, larger tires last longer, get fewer flats, and are comfier.
Steel lasts longer than you will.

That's the beauty of the old way. You buy one good bike and your done. Once a year you get a tuneup, and that's that. You ride it.
Once in a while you clean it. In my family Sis has a seven speed, wifey has a 8 speed, and I have a 9 speed. The 7 speed stuff lasts forever, it even seems to turn with less friction, and believe me, it
is entry level components.

Like most people, the lure of STI was too much. But there is a real appeal to having a bike that doesn't hardly ever get flats, doesn't go out of whack, and doesn't really need anything besides a rider and a monthly cleaning.

I've tried STI 3 times.......each time I sell them on ebay and go back to good ole fashion bar-cons (Friction mode) with a std. bend bar.

That'd be me. Lugged steel? Check. DT shifters? Yup. Leather saddle? Uh-huh. 23c tires? Got 'em. Full frame pump? That too. And I was looking at some Ibex wool knickers for fall too!

It all works well, but vintage Dura-ace is hard to get parts for (should I ever need 'em), so a new roadie is not too distant. Brifters have never been in my garage (perhaps March, though)!

<< The 7 speed stuff lasts forever, it even seems to turn with less friction, and believe me, it
is entry level components. >>

It does turn with less friction.

Sealed bearings are agreat thing for people with no interest in making their bikes last forever, but they have much more internal friction than cup and cone bearings.

It is noticeable on the bike.

Hmm, considering some of the info of the previous posts and my own experiences:

All Hail to the retrogrouches and Rivendell!

I used to mountain biking with the same bunch of guys every Saturday morning. They used to kid me about my somewhat "functional" equipment. My bike had a rigid fork and toe clips and I carried stuff like my helmet and shoes to the trailhead in a cardboard box. I can't really say that I ever dusted the other guys but I stayed up with them (kind'a) and we had a good time together.

A retrogrouch is a bike rider who lets the other guys waste their money trying out all of the new ideas.

I never thought of myself as a Retrogrouch. I thought of myself as an independent thinker and cyclist.

Oh nooooo, the retrogrouch camps appears to be weakened! ;) Sheldon says:

"Friction shifting
Shifting operated by a lever that moves smoothly through its range. With friction shifting, the rider must learn exactly how far to move the lever to get from one gear to another. If the rider moves the lever too far, or not far enough, the chain will not line up properly with the sprocket, causing noise and roughness. See index shifting
If your bike has friction shifters, consider upgrading to a modern indexed system. This is a major, very worthwhile upgrade."

"Rear Derailers
Older rear derailers are generally much inferior to modern ones, even quite expensive older rear derailers don't work as well as the cheapest newer designs."

I am confused, I guess Sheldon loves all bikes (including Rivendell) but i still wonder why he would recommend the modern bits. Oh well. Guess i am glad i hub gears because at present i really wouldn't know what der. gear system to opt for.

As for Computing retrogrouch stuff, anyone know any other examples than VI txt editor -that's a good one as according to Maddox from "The Best Page in the Universe" (you guys know him right?):

"This page was made using vi in unix. Anything else is for failures."

Maddox actually often cracks me up. On a sidenote does anyone know a girl/woman that really likes Maddox's writings?

'Cause they work so much better! Nothing confusing about it.

It is a mistake to think of me as a "retrogrouch." I'm actually much more of an early adopter (would a retrogrouch be doing podcasts?)

It's true that I have a fondness for the ride and beauty of many older frames, but I have no great
nostalgia for old parts. I also own 3 aluminum frames, two of which I ride very frequently. The only reason I don't have any titanium frames is 'cause I'm too cheap, and already have enough bikes.

I even own a Greenspeed recumbent trike.

See: http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycles

I'm also a photographer, and own classic Leica, Contax and Rolleiflex cameras...but I haven't bought any film in this millenium, and my enlargers have been dark for years (though I still can't bring myself to part with them.) Instead, I use one of 4 Nikon digital cameras.

I'm never without my top-of-the-line Sony Clié PDA, and almost never buy paper-based books anymore...I much prefer to do my reading on the bright digital screen.

I'm also never without my 60GB iPod...does that sound like a retrogrouch? ;-)

However, I don't "love all bikes" quite...I still detest wheelie bikes and lowriders. I like bikes that are designed to be actually ridden, not bikes designed as toys.

Sheldon "Not A GROUCH, DAMMIT!" Brown

I think there's a lot of people who have very outmoded ideas about bikes, though. Like women who still think it's too complicated. I have a friend who gets so frustrated that once she borrowed a bike from someone and threw it at him because she couldn't figure it out. I said, it's not so hard, you just practice. Yeah, she says, but you're a cyclist! I said, Yes, but I wasn't born on a road bike! No one is! Even lance!

Then she gets a hybrid, but still has this idea about the downtube- she's still thinking that a women's bike can't have a horizontal tube. I said "Why, do you wear a skirt when you ride?" No. "You can't lift your leg behind you when you get off the bike?" It's just that she still has these girly-girl, 1970s ideas and is convinced she can't figure it out. Well, maybe she'll get used to the hybrid and then get a roadbike...

Well said, and true.
:beer:

@ Sheldon, very nice to have you add your two cents! Of course my comments pertaining to you possibly being a retrogrouch were firmly tongue in cheek as i have read your journal & site enough to be aware of your fondness of certain modern gear.

Though one must consider the i-pod is of course the new black for all future Retrogrouches har har. ;)

Interesting that bit about e-books/PDA's, i have often thought i'd love to get into that as i enjoy reading immensely, would you happen to have any journal entries or articles about your experiences with E-Books and such?

I do not truly consider myself a retrogrouch either as i have lots of very modern stuff that i love (not just when it comes to bikes) and at times i am also 'the first on my block' with certain gear. I guess i am more of a 'Durability and Functionality Uber Alles' type,.. well, if i were to pigeonhole myself that is.

As for the new drivetrain bits working better, i can very well imagine (i really lack experience to be able to know myself) but is it true that by and large old drivetrain gear outlasts the new gear by scores? Or is that very relative? If (if!) that is so, i could see why people would favor it over the new gear despite losing some functionality in the trade off.

And ahh,.. one more thing, i am not sure if you are aware of it but i started a fan thread in your honor, um,.. if you feel uncomfortable with that let me know perhaps i can ask the mods to remove it!

Lastly i am very tempted to tap you up for "free" advice on my Twenty at this juncture but i'll keep my peace ha ha, i am sure you are busy and all.

This is a retrogrouch: