What exactly is a RetroGrouch...?
10-21-05 | 02:44 PM
#1
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What exactly is a RetroGrouch...?
Hey, a little off topic but yeah, does anyone have a definition of this..? I couldn't seem to find one on-line. I like the word and the implied meaning though, 'tis funny. It seems to be used often by cyclist, computing/linux communities and others...
Your thoughts on this? What makes one a RG, are there different categories or RG's? Does one have to be a RG in various fields to qualify or is just cycling or computing or..... enough?
The Protoganists in the the movie "High Fidelity" could be classed as RG's in the music field i am guessing..
I supposse i'll come out of the closet: I am guessing i am a RetroGrouch as i am a self proclaimed "Evil Priest of Brooks" saddles, wished most people used a Tange Levin Headset and my main ride is a 20 to 35 year old Raleigh Twenty (though it sports many modern parts including the anti retro Nexus three speed hub).
Your thoughts on this? What makes one a RG, are there different categories or RG's? Does one have to be a RG in various fields to qualify or is just cycling or computing or..... enough?
The Protoganists in the the movie "High Fidelity" could be classed as RG's in the music field i am guessing..
I supposse i'll come out of the closet: I am guessing i am a RetroGrouch as i am a self proclaimed "Evil Priest of Brooks" saddles, wished most people used a Tange Levin Headset and my main ride is a 20 to 35 year old Raleigh Twenty (though it sports many modern parts including the anti retro Nexus three speed hub).
10-21-05 | 02:49 PM
#2
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: The edge of b#
Bikes: A whole bunch-a bikes.
RetroGrouch is a poster on this forum thats all I know. I never heard of the word out side of that.
I would guess that it would mean something to the effect of as a computing example, " I use vi damn it because it is the best text editor ever made. You don't need that stinking wisywig crap bah bah".
Or perhaps, "Downtube shifters were the last necessary piece of shifting equipment ever made. And only the friction ones. STI is a waste of money and is no where near as reliable damn it"
You know they like the old stuff and the defend it in a grouchy way? I dont know?
I would guess that it would mean something to the effect of as a computing example, " I use vi damn it because it is the best text editor ever made. You don't need that stinking wisywig crap bah bah".
Or perhaps, "Downtube shifters were the last necessary piece of shifting equipment ever made. And only the friction ones. STI is a waste of money and is no where near as reliable damn it"
You know they like the old stuff and the defend it in a grouchy way? I dont know?
10-21-05 | 03:24 PM
#3
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From: Okanagan Valley, BC
Bikes: Too Many
<< Downtube shifters were the last necessary piece of shifting equipment ever made. And only the friction ones. STI is a waste of money and is no where near as reliable damn it >>
Your point is what??
Your point is what??
10-21-05 | 03:35 PM
#4
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 605
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From: Central Texas
Originally Posted by jfmckenna
Or perhaps, "Downtube shifters were the last necessary piece of shifting equipment ever made. And only the friction ones. STI is a waste of money and is no where near as reliable damn it"
You know they like the old stuff and the defend it in a grouchy way? I dont know?
BAH!!! You youngsters with your fancy pancy STI shifters. Back in the day we used real reliable downtube friction shifters. We didn't need any handholding to get it into the right gear back then!!
10-21-05 | 03:46 PM
#5
totally louche
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 18,023
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From: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Curmudgeonly.
Wool shorts, friction shifters, steel.
Thinking about getting a boneshaker for critical mass.
Wool shorts, friction shifters, steel.
Thinking about getting a boneshaker for critical mass.
10-21-05 | 05:11 PM
#7
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From: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Originally Posted by Bekologist
Curmudgeonly.
Wool shorts, friction shifters, steel.
Thinking about getting a boneshaker for critical mass.
Wool shorts, friction shifters, steel.
Thinking about getting a boneshaker for critical mass.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
10-21-05 | 05:41 PM
#8
Overacting because I can
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: The Mean Streets of Bethesda, MD
Bikes: Merlin Agilis, Trek 1500
Walter Mathau was a retrogrouch.
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“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)
"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)
"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
10-21-05 | 06:20 PM
#10
Why do I need a bike that weighs less than 25 lbs? BAH!
I remember one guy who used to post on usenet, about how he would ride his old, crummy bike and blast by roadies...etc. If he's that strong, great.... then get a road bike and race! Someone would love to have you on their team!
I remember one guy who used to post on usenet, about how he would ride his old, crummy bike and blast by roadies...etc. If he's that strong, great.... then get a road bike and race! Someone would love to have you on their team!
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You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. That's great...if you want to attract vermin.
You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. That's great...if you want to attract vermin.
10-21-05 | 06:37 PM
#11
45 miles/week
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 1
From: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Jamis Aurora
25 lbs? Dude, 25 lbs is a dream for me. My bike is double that. Does that make me a retrogrouch? I'm not proud, or advocating it though. It's just the way it is.
10-21-05 | 07:06 PM
#12
Infamous Member
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Ohio
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Originally Posted by wabbit
Why do I need a bike that weighs less than 25 lbs? BAH!
I remember one guy who used to post on usenet, about how he would ride his old, crummy bike and blast by roadies...etc. If he's that strong, great.... then get a road bike and race! Someone would love to have you on their team!
I remember one guy who used to post on usenet, about how he would ride his old, crummy bike and blast by roadies...etc. If he's that strong, great.... then get a road bike and race! Someone would love to have you on their team!
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
10-21-05 | 07:08 PM
#13
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,952
Likes: 1,513
From: Southern Maine
For years the only place I would see the word retrogrouch would
be to describe Grant Petersen of Rivendell fame. Several years ago
aluminum was king, titanium as god, and all anybody talked about was STI.
Grant was doing steel and friction and leather seats. He wasn't the only guy, but he made a cause of it, and that got him a little media attention.
A retrogrouch is somebody who does it the old fashioned way, because it's the better way. Friction shifters rarely need looking after, larger tires last longer, get fewer flats, and are comfier.
Steel lasts longer than you will.
That's the beauty of the old way. You buy one good bike and your done. Once a year you get a tuneup, and that's that. You ride it.
Once in a while you clean it. In my family Sis has a seven speed, wifey has a 8 speed, and I have a 9 speed. The 7 speed stuff lasts forever, it even seems to turn with less friction, and believe me, it
is entry level components.
Like most people, the lure of STI was too much. But there is a real appeal to having a bike that doesn't hardly ever get flats, doesn't go out of whack, and doesn't really need anything besides a rider and a monthly cleaning.
be to describe Grant Petersen of Rivendell fame. Several years ago
aluminum was king, titanium as god, and all anybody talked about was STI.
Grant was doing steel and friction and leather seats. He wasn't the only guy, but he made a cause of it, and that got him a little media attention.
A retrogrouch is somebody who does it the old fashioned way, because it's the better way. Friction shifters rarely need looking after, larger tires last longer, get fewer flats, and are comfier.
Steel lasts longer than you will.
That's the beauty of the old way. You buy one good bike and your done. Once a year you get a tuneup, and that's that. You ride it.
Once in a while you clean it. In my family Sis has a seven speed, wifey has a 8 speed, and I have a 9 speed. The 7 speed stuff lasts forever, it even seems to turn with less friction, and believe me, it
is entry level components.
Like most people, the lure of STI was too much. But there is a real appeal to having a bike that doesn't hardly ever get flats, doesn't go out of whack, and doesn't really need anything besides a rider and a monthly cleaning.
10-21-05 | 08:22 PM
#15
That'd be me. Lugged steel? Check. DT shifters? Yup. Leather saddle? Uh-huh. 23c tires? Got 'em. Full frame pump? That too. And I was looking at some Ibex wool knickers for fall too!
It all works well, but vintage Dura-ace is hard to get parts for (should I ever need 'em), so a new roadie is not too distant. Brifters have never been in my garage (perhaps March, though)!
It all works well, but vintage Dura-ace is hard to get parts for (should I ever need 'em), so a new roadie is not too distant. Brifters have never been in my garage (perhaps March, though)!
10-21-05 | 08:43 PM
#16
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 431
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From: Okanagan Valley, BC
Bikes: Too Many
<< The 7 speed stuff lasts forever, it even seems to turn with less friction, and believe me, it
is entry level components. >>
It does turn with less friction.
Sealed bearings are agreat thing for people with no interest in making their bikes last forever, but they have much more internal friction than cup and cone bearings.
It is noticeable on the bike.
is entry level components. >>
It does turn with less friction.
Sealed bearings are agreat thing for people with no interest in making their bikes last forever, but they have much more internal friction than cup and cone bearings.
It is noticeable on the bike.
10-22-05 | 05:41 AM
#18
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 30,225
Likes: 649
From: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
I used to mountain biking with the same bunch of guys every Saturday morning. They used to kid me about my somewhat "functional" equipment. My bike had a rigid fork and toe clips and I carried stuff like my helmet and shoes to the trailhead in a cardboard box. I can't really say that I ever dusted the other guys but I stayed up with them (kind'a) and we had a good time together.
A retrogrouch is a bike rider who lets the other guys waste their money trying out all of the new ideas.
A retrogrouch is a bike rider who lets the other guys waste their money trying out all of the new ideas.
10-22-05 | 02:20 PM
#20
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Oh nooooo, the retrogrouch camps appears to be weakened! 
Sheldon says:
"Friction shifting
Shifting operated by a lever that moves smoothly through its range. With friction shifting, the rider must learn exactly how far to move the lever to get from one gear to another. If the rider moves the lever too far, or not far enough, the chain will not line up properly with the sprocket, causing noise and roughness. See index shifting
If your bike has friction shifters, consider upgrading to a modern indexed system. This is a major, very worthwhile upgrade."
"Rear Derailers
Older rear derailers are generally much inferior to modern ones, even quite expensive older rear derailers don't work as well as the cheapest newer designs."
I am confused, I guess Sheldon loves all bikes (including Rivendell) but i still wonder why he would recommend the modern bits. Oh well. Guess i am glad i hub gears because at present i really wouldn't know what der. gear system to opt for.
As for Computing retrogrouch stuff, anyone know any other examples than VI txt editor -that's a good one as according to Maddox from "The Best Page in the Universe" (you guys know him right?):
"This page was made using vi in unix. Anything else is for failures."
Maddox actually often cracks me up. On a sidenote does anyone know a girl/woman that really likes Maddox's writings?
Sheldon says:"Friction shifting
Shifting operated by a lever that moves smoothly through its range. With friction shifting, the rider must learn exactly how far to move the lever to get from one gear to another. If the rider moves the lever too far, or not far enough, the chain will not line up properly with the sprocket, causing noise and roughness. See index shifting
If your bike has friction shifters, consider upgrading to a modern indexed system. This is a major, very worthwhile upgrade."
"Rear Derailers
Older rear derailers are generally much inferior to modern ones, even quite expensive older rear derailers don't work as well as the cheapest newer designs."
I am confused, I guess Sheldon loves all bikes (including Rivendell) but i still wonder why he would recommend the modern bits. Oh well. Guess i am glad i hub gears because at present i really wouldn't know what der. gear system to opt for.
As for Computing retrogrouch stuff, anyone know any other examples than VI txt editor -that's a good one as according to Maddox from "The Best Page in the Universe" (you guys know him right?):
"This page was made using vi in unix. Anything else is for failures."
Maddox actually often cracks me up. On a sidenote does anyone know a girl/woman that really likes Maddox's writings?
Last edited by v1nce; 10-22-05 at 02:40 PM.
10-22-05 | 03:04 PM
#21
Gone, but not forgotten
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,301
Likes: 12
From: Newtonville, Massachusetts
Bikes: See: https://sheldonbrown.org/bicycles
Originally Posted by v1nce
Oh nooooo, the retrogrouch camps appears to be weakened! Sheldon says:
"Friction shifting
Shifting operated by a lever that moves smoothly through its range. With friction shifting, the rider must learn exactly how far to move the lever to get from one gear to another. If the rider moves the lever too far, or not far enough, the chain will not line up properly with the sprocket, causing noise and roughness. See index shifting
If your bike has friction shifters, consider upgrading to a modern indexed system. This is a major, very worthwhile upgrade."
"Rear Derailers
Older rear derailers are generally much inferior to modern ones, even quite expensive older rear derailers don't work as well as the cheapest newer designs."
I am confused, I guess Sheldon loves all bikes (including Rivendell) but i still wonder why he would recommend the modern bits.
Sheldon says:"Friction shifting
Shifting operated by a lever that moves smoothly through its range. With friction shifting, the rider must learn exactly how far to move the lever to get from one gear to another. If the rider moves the lever too far, or not far enough, the chain will not line up properly with the sprocket, causing noise and roughness. See index shifting
If your bike has friction shifters, consider upgrading to a modern indexed system. This is a major, very worthwhile upgrade."
"Rear Derailers
Older rear derailers are generally much inferior to modern ones, even quite expensive older rear derailers don't work as well as the cheapest newer designs."
I am confused, I guess Sheldon loves all bikes (including Rivendell) but i still wonder why he would recommend the modern bits.
It is a mistake to think of me as a "retrogrouch." I'm actually much more of an early adopter (would a retrogrouch be doing podcasts?)
It's true that I have a fondness for the ride and beauty of many older frames, but I have no great
nostalgia for old parts. I also own 3 aluminum frames, two of which I ride very frequently. The only reason I don't have any titanium frames is 'cause I'm too cheap, and already have enough bikes.
I even own a Greenspeed recumbent trike.
See: https://sheldonbrown.org/bicycles
I'm also a photographer, and own classic Leica, Contax and Rolleiflex cameras...but I haven't bought any film in this millenium, and my enlargers have been dark for years (though I still can't bring myself to part with them.) Instead, I use one of 4 Nikon digital cameras.
I'm never without my top-of-the-line Sony Clié PDA, and almost never buy paper-based books anymore...I much prefer to do my reading on the bright digital screen.
I'm also never without my 60GB iPod...does that sound like a retrogrouch? ;-)
However, I don't "love all bikes" quite...I still detest wheelie bikes and lowriders. I like bikes that are designed to be actually ridden, not bikes designed as toys.
Sheldon "Not A GROUCH, DAMMIT!" Brown
Code:
+----------------------------------------+ | Promote the institution of marriage: | | Make it available to all adults! | +----------------------------------------+
10-22-05 | 04:48 PM
#22
I think there's a lot of people who have very outmoded ideas about bikes, though. Like women who still think it's too complicated. I have a friend who gets so frustrated that once she borrowed a bike from someone and threw it at him because she couldn't figure it out. I said, it's not so hard, you just practice. Yeah, she says, but you're a cyclist! I said, Yes, but I wasn't born on a road bike! No one is! Even lance!
Then she gets a hybrid, but still has this idea about the downtube- she's still thinking that a women's bike can't have a horizontal tube. I said "Why, do you wear a skirt when you ride?" No. "You can't lift your leg behind you when you get off the bike?" It's just that she still has these girly-girl, 1970s ideas and is convinced she can't figure it out. Well, maybe she'll get used to the hybrid and then get a roadbike...
Then she gets a hybrid, but still has this idea about the downtube- she's still thinking that a women's bike can't have a horizontal tube. I said "Why, do you wear a skirt when you ride?" No. "You can't lift your leg behind you when you get off the bike?" It's just that she still has these girly-girl, 1970s ideas and is convinced she can't figure it out. Well, maybe she'll get used to the hybrid and then get a roadbike...
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You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. That's great...if you want to attract vermin.
You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. That's great...if you want to attract vermin.
10-22-05 | 05:01 PM
#23
Immoderator
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,630
Likes: 5
From: POS Tennessee
Bikes: Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed
Originally Posted by late
A retrogrouch is somebody who does it the old fashioned way, because it's the better way. Friction shifters rarely need looking after, larger tires last longer, get fewer flats, and are comfier.
Steel lasts longer than you will.
That's the beauty of the old way. You buy one good bike and your done. Once a year you get a tuneup, and that's that. You ride it.
Once in a while you clean it. In my family Sis has a seven speed, wifey has a 8 speed, and I have a 9 speed. The 7 speed stuff lasts forever, it even seems to turn with less friction, and believe me, it
is entry level components.
Like most people, the lure of STI was too much. But there is a real appeal to having a bike that doesn't hardly ever get flats, doesn't go out of whack, and doesn't really need anything besides a rider and a monthly cleaning.
Steel lasts longer than you will.
That's the beauty of the old way. You buy one good bike and your done. Once a year you get a tuneup, and that's that. You ride it.
Once in a while you clean it. In my family Sis has a seven speed, wifey has a 8 speed, and I have a 9 speed. The 7 speed stuff lasts forever, it even seems to turn with less friction, and believe me, it
is entry level components.
Like most people, the lure of STI was too much. But there is a real appeal to having a bike that doesn't hardly ever get flats, doesn't go out of whack, and doesn't really need anything besides a rider and a monthly cleaning.
10-22-05 | 05:49 PM
#24
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,427
Likes: 1
@ Sheldon, very nice to have you add your two cents! Of course my comments pertaining to you possibly being a retrogrouch were firmly tongue in cheek as i have read your journal & site enough to be aware of your fondness of certain modern gear.
Though one must consider the i-pod is of course the new black for all future Retrogrouches har har.
Interesting that bit about e-books/PDA's, i have often thought i'd love to get into that as i enjoy reading immensely, would you happen to have any journal entries or articles about your experiences with E-Books and such?
I do not truly consider myself a retrogrouch either as i have lots of very modern stuff that i love (not just when it comes to bikes) and at times i am also 'the first on my block' with certain gear. I guess i am more of a 'Durability and Functionality Uber Alles' type,.. well, if i were to pigeonhole myself that is.
As for the new drivetrain bits working better, i can very well imagine (i really lack experience to be able to know myself) but is it true that by and large old drivetrain gear outlasts the new gear by scores? Or is that very relative? If (if!) that is so, i could see why people would favor it over the new gear despite losing some functionality in the trade off.
And ahh,.. one more thing, i am not sure if you are aware of it but i started a fan thread in your honor, um,.. if you feel uncomfortable with that let me know perhaps i can ask the mods to remove it!
Lastly i am very tempted to tap you up for "free" advice on my Twenty at this juncture but i'll keep my peace ha ha, i am sure you are busy and all.
Though one must consider the i-pod is of course the new black for all future Retrogrouches har har.
Interesting that bit about e-books/PDA's, i have often thought i'd love to get into that as i enjoy reading immensely, would you happen to have any journal entries or articles about your experiences with E-Books and such?
I do not truly consider myself a retrogrouch either as i have lots of very modern stuff that i love (not just when it comes to bikes) and at times i am also 'the first on my block' with certain gear. I guess i am more of a 'Durability and Functionality Uber Alles' type,.. well, if i were to pigeonhole myself that is.
As for the new drivetrain bits working better, i can very well imagine (i really lack experience to be able to know myself) but is it true that by and large old drivetrain gear outlasts the new gear by scores? Or is that very relative? If (if!) that is so, i could see why people would favor it over the new gear despite losing some functionality in the trade off.
And ahh,.. one more thing, i am not sure if you are aware of it but i started a fan thread in your honor, um,.. if you feel uncomfortable with that let me know perhaps i can ask the mods to remove it!
Lastly i am very tempted to tap you up for "free" advice on my Twenty at this juncture but i'll keep my peace ha ha, i am sure you are busy and all.
10-22-05 | 07:50 PM
#25
Macaws Rock!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,513
Likes: 2
From: San Francisco, CA
Bikes: 2005 Soma Doublecross
This is a retrogrouch:
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San Francisco, California
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San Francisco, California