Blue Order,
Sorry I disappeared on you. I appreciate your input and your questions. You seem to have summed up why I think I'm right. The lock should not be sold. It should not be on the market. I had no idea when I first purchased and used it that this model of lock was widely known to be faulty.

How did I lock up my bike?
I put my bike over the top of a stationary bike rack with the front wheel resting between the slats. I put the cable through both wheels, the frame, and the bars of the bike rack. Then I locked the ends together with the Trimax Max 40 mini U-lock. After 2 hours and 40 minutes of class, the bike rack was bare. No bike. No marks on the rack. No pieces of metal fibers on the ground from a the cable being cut. When the cops came, they looked at my key and said that even school kids know how to use a Bic to open these things.

My best possible scenario is a settlement the way you describe. But first I have to pestor my lawyer friend and I'm hoping for a way around that. An educated consumer should be able to point out where a retailer and a manufacturer have made mistakes and expect to see some movement. First, Sierra Trading Post should stop selling the lock. Second, if either of them will agree that they shouldn't have sold me the lock, then they can cut me a check and I'll shut up.

I figured that this would be of interest to Bikeforums members, not so I can get some money to replace my old bike, but to ensure that bike owners have some recourse with the companies who profit from them. One senior member, Nubie, asked if it was Sierra Trading Post that sold me the lock. I'm interested if that gives anyone some idea for a creative way forward. STP claims to be a business that is driven by the teachings of Jesus Christ. Ironic considering their stonewalling and less than compassionate response to the situation.

Looking forward to more discussion on this.

OK, that's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure. Here's the problem: You didn't use the U-Lock properly. You locked two ends of a cable together with the u-lock, and anybody with a bolt cutter could cut through the cable and take the bike. Now maybe the lock doesn't meet its implied warranty of merchantability because a bic pen can open it, and therefore it shouldn't be on the market, but the basic problem you're personally facing is that you used the lock improperly, and therefore, it's extremely possible that the thief just cut the cable and took the bike.

Here's what you need to do in the future:

1) Use the best u-lock you can find to secure your bike frame (probably the Kryptonite New York or Kryptonite Fuggedaboutit), and possibly the rear wheel, to the bike rack or whatever you're locking up to. Be careful that the object you're locking to can't be or hasn't been unbolted.

2) Use a cable lock to secure your wheels to the bike frame. Use a separate lock to secure the cable lock (in other words, don't lock the cable with the U-lock).

3) For real security, use the Abus lock and kryptonite chain combo that Alanbikehouston mentioned in a post above.

B.O.,
I think you know that I am not looking for advice on what to do from now on. So please spare me the lecture. It wouldn't have mattered if I used a heavy chain instead of a cable. The faulty U-lock was a sitting duck. The person who should be worried about what is possible is the manufacturer. They shouldn't have let the retailer continue to sell this product. You've made your point and it's superfluous. Cheers.

I'm not lecturing, I'm offering advice on how to properly secure your bike in the future, because it's obvious that you didn't have it properly secured when it was stolen.

You don't know that. As I said above, the u-lock could have been jacked apart. The cable could have been cut. And yes, the lock could have been picked. Let's say the lock wasn't picked, but you secured your bike with the heavy chain instead of a cable. Would the chain have been cut? No. And you'd still have your bike, unless the u-lock was jacked apart. However, with the lock/chain combo Alanbikehouston recommends above, it's not going to be cut, and it's not going to be jacked. This isn't a lecture, it's a word of warning that you're not locking your bike properly. Get the proper locks, and use them properly. A word of advice.

And maybe it was picked. But maybe it wasn't. You can buy an unpickable u-lock, and still lose your bike if you lock it the way you did. There's a world of difference between having a pickable lock, and proving that your lock was picked.

You're absolutely right on this point.


Superfluous to what? Improper locking technique has no relevance to bike theft?

If you'd stop thinking of my post as being an attack, you could learn from this theft.

If I understand what you are saying, your bike was not actually locked. It takes 2 seconds to clip the typical cable, 10 seconds for a beefy, expensive cable. Someone clipped the cable, giving them your bike, and giving them your u-lock. From your description, it sounds as if the u-lock was not attached to the bike rack. You have not provided any reason to think that the crook ever touched your u-lock, prior to riding away on your bike.

There is a method of locking your bike that makes it impossible to steal without power tools. That method is to place a premium quality u-lock from Kryptonite, OnGuard, or Abus (locks selling for $50 to $100, not the $19 models) around the rear wheel, directly behind the seat tube. The lock goes around a beefy steel post that is set in concrete, such as a electric pole, or a parking meter. If you have a cheap front wheel, attach it to the frame with a cable lock...an expensive front wheel requires a u-lock.

Flimsy, light weight bike racks, held together with a few bolts are NOT a secure location for locking a bike. The beefy steel racks that lock like a series of "U"s that are set into concrete also work well with the "mini u-lock around the rear wheel method".

It is tough to lose a bike. And, it sorta puts a cloud over every ride to have to think about some crook stealing our bike. But, we have to be smarter than the crooks if we want to beat them.

But Alanbikehouston, the u-lock needs to secure both the rear wheel AND the seat tube to the post, right? Because I know you don't mean this, but it reads as if you just need to lock the rear wheel to the post...

Do NOT put the u-lock around the frame. Don't buy a u-lock that is wide enough to go around both the rear wheel and the frame. Many dumber crooks use prying tools to attempt to break u-locks. A u-lock wide enough to go around both the rear wheel and the frame gives the crook plenty of room to insert his prying/breaking tool. But, the seat tube begins to bend before the lock begins to bend. So, "Mr. Dumb Crook" ends up destroying your frame.

Use a premium "mini" u-lock. The new Kryptonite Fahgetaboudit mini u-lock (weighing a hefty five pounds) is probably the best of the bunch. A mini u-lock is big enough to get around the rear wheel and a beefy steel post (by pressing the wheel up flush against the steel pole). But, there is not enough empty space to insert effective prying and breaking tools. The worst possible damage to your bike, if the crook applies a massive amount of force, is that you will need to replace a rim...much cheaper than replacing the frame.

You doubt this method works? Just try it out. Lock the rear wheel of your bike, with the lock just an inch behind the seat tube, to a beefy steel pole. Release the quick release, and try to take the wheel. Try to take the frame. Neither of them is going anywhere.

A crook learns very early in his career not to even bother looking at a bike that correctly uses this method. There are waaay to many bikes out there that use cable locks, or have only the front wheel attached to the rack. Those bikes are "free" bikes, and those are the ones a crook will go after.

I suggest the Fahgettaboudit Mini, because it is reasonably easy to locate. In fact, it is currently be sold on E-Bay for $59 with priority mail. Abus makes high quality locks, but they are difficult to find in the USA.

The very best (and most expensive) chain locks (the ones that weigh eight or ten pounds) are as good as the Fahgettaboudit Mini u-lock. But, I don't see any reason to carry that much weight when the a mini u-lock can do the job with half the weight.

Well, there you have it Jasonguard...my locking technique is subpar as well. Live and learn.

So alanbikehouston, I know you're also a proponent of the Abus lock and heavy chain method. Can you explain the locking technique for that combo?

Alan?

(might have missed my last question)...

Alan and B.O.,
Please, get a room. My question did not concern best practices of bike security. It concerned the security of a particular product - specifically whether the Max 40 was or should have been recalled during the big Kryptonite fiasco of 2004. I know, you two want to talk about HOW you use the lock rather than whether or not the lock is faulty. Point taken.

Now, moving along. This discussion topic is titled "Your locks - How safe?"

My question is, are cyllindar key locks obsolete? Are they still on the market? Why? And what do we do about it?

I've never used chains. The really good ones are waaay too heavy to lug around. If I used one, I'd probably go for something short, such as the Kryptonite NY Noose, and use the "around the rear wheel and steel pole" method, the same as with a u-lock.

Some messengers here in Houston like the longer chains because they don't have time to hunt for a steel pole that fits a u-lock. A bigger chain will fit around the rear wheel and a telephone pole, or street light, or most any pole you can find. They are willing to struggle with ten pounds of chain in trade for the convenience of parking at any building in town.

One time I locked my bike to my car rack and left on vacation forgetting the key to unlock my bike. I pulled over at a random construction site, and asked them if they had anything to cut the lock. (I was thinking that I might have to go to the fire department and get them to break out the jaws of life). Well this random guy pulls out of his hip pocket something that looked like a big set of gardening shears and proceeded to snip through my cable lock like it was a stick of butter.

It CAN'T be that easy right? I'm sure somebody at Specialized thought of that too abd made the plastic strong enough. It would be kinda dumb to protect the cable with kevlar but nothign there to protect the plastic right?

the plastic does not need protection, it's the cheap metal that's used in the majority of cable locks.

Some of the really cheap one are bad enough thst they can be ripped open.

Let this thread die already.

I also posted this elsewhere:

>>

FYI all that is needed to defeat the very "best" locks is a can of freon "freeze"spray and a hardened steel striking instrument and something to use as a back stop. This is an old NYC bike theif's trick and one of the reason that Kryptonite finally had to limit their losses on theft of bikes locked with their products.

When I used to own a shop and customer would come in with lost keys to a Krypronite they had two choices: order and wait for replacement keys or once they had proven ownership I could have the lock off in 3 minutes or less. Chains, U-locks, anything can be easily defeated by a pro in 3 minutes or less. so quickly that suspicion is not stirred among passersby.
<<
Slim

PS:

The Freon trick works on any hardened steel lock or lick chain combo. Any size any shape and any position on the bike. And remember the thief may be stealing the bike, especially high end units to strip it so he will not hesitate to butcher the frame, dent it or otherwise worry much about its cosmetics.

Slim

Simply not true, thank goodness. Tests by "Cycling Plus" and "Soldsecure.com" show that no leverage method, prying method, or "hammer" method will work on the best 2006 model locks, such as the OnGuard Brute and the Kryptonite New York lock. Power cutting tools will work, but on the best locks, even power tools will take time.

"Cycling Plus" tested a chain that power tools could not cut, and a padlock that power tools could not cut. They were from different companies, requiring a cyclist to "mix and match" brands. And, their combined weight of eight or ten pounds was far more than most cyclists are willing to lug around.

The best practical solutions are "gold" rated u-locks, listed at Soldsecure.com. They weigh five pounds or less, half the weight of the best chains.

www.Soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm

Alanbikehouston you may bea resident guru but I have the experience to back up my claims. And don't you think that Kryptonite or any U-lock maker wants you to belive it is "not true" Of course they do. The metal has to be chilled so deeply that it crystalizes when struck. An "earnest effort" will not do it. A determined one will. Here is my response to the skeptics. Read on:

--------------------------------

Well my friends I do not know what type "coolant you used but it was not done properly. And the harder and tuffer the steel used in the lock the better they shatter! Platinum schmatinum:-))

I use electronics troubleshooting freeze spray in a can. It cost around $3-5 per can and you need to use the entire can and concentrate the freezing in one area near the shackle. You may need gloves to keep your skin from being damaged.

Concentrate the spray in one area of the shackle near where the shackle and bar meet. Be sure to get coverage all the way around. When you see ice krystals standing out from the lock and the can is about empty you need to work fast. The metal will shatter if the lock is made cold enough and struck boldly enough

Brace the back of the intersecting bar or massive portion of the mechanisim with the heavy backstop and strike with max, sheering force on the frozen area. I have done this many times and practice does make perfect. The blow is like a karate blow. Very fast and think of swinging through the point struck. I would recommend protective goggles.

I am not sorry you or others may not have it figured out. We have enough folks doing it for the wrong reasons already.

Disclaimer: I am not responsible and neither are the Bike Forums if you hurt yourself trying this!

Slim

Addendum. This is formt he "lockit" site;

FREEZING: Although not a myth, deep-freezing of locks, with Freon, is not that easy to do. Yes, cheaper ,lower quality, locks will snap easily when made more brittle but those locks will usually be broken by conventional methods too. Locks like ABUS Granit series are tested to withstand -40�. Freon only freezes to -20�. Plus, Freon is expensive and hard to get (licensed). Again, do not leave your chain or lock on the ground. You are making it way to easy for thieves to cut them off.

I do not use Automotive freon. It is only good oncheaper locks. Slim

PS,

A carbide wheel or diamond wheel will cut any metal period and compact oxy-acetalyne rig will too. There is no lock that cannot be removed by force. Locksmithing is a long time hobby of mine and like they say "Locks just help honest folks stay honest."

My 2¢

Slim

...and like they say "Locks just help honest folks stay honest." -slim_chestnut


I think that sums it up nicely. I gave up mostly on locks except for preventing the theif of opportunity (grabbers and snatchers) from grabbing the bike, luggage, or some other valueable item from behind your back when it is turned for a second. I just buy and use folders now.

Most important is owning a "beater bike", for those times you want to go somewhere on a bike, but not worry too much about it being stolen.

Once I get a saturday off work, I am hitting up the goodwill to find such a bike...fix it up a bit, and ride it till the cranks fall off.

i've had a total of 4 bikes stolen, one of which was recovered (i knew the a$$hole who stole it). of these four bikes, none were secured in any fashion. also, none of these bikes cost very much. i live in a college town of about 25,000 ppl, and bike theft is surprisingly rare. i currently secure my bike with a four dollar, 3-digit combination lock/chain, which, incidentally, is worth about as much as my bike. ii recently bought a gigantic trimax chain; why i did, i dont really know. i think i will put it on ebay.

you are kidding yourself if you think someone can't easily get through a rear wheel with an angle grinder.
most likely though you have a cheap u-lock..... the angle grinder would be heading straight for that first...... if it's an expensive u lock and it's taking too long.... guess what...... there goes the wheel...... it would be quick...... grind a couple spokes if need be, deflate and clear the tire/tube...... if you practice I'm sure you could get it done in 30 seconds