i woudn't send back the $105 either.. and i wouldn't give UPS the bike! and i agree... stop answering the phone when UPS or the seller call!

My experience with UPS insurance is excellent, however they always pick up the item before issuing a check. I'm not sure why they sent the seller a refund before they inspected the item. My guess is the claim was filed for what you paid for the bike as the damage while somewhat comestic is not really repairable to new condition. Anyway, if they issued a check to the seller, and now want the bike, I would tell them to talk to the seller and get their money back. Since you like the bike, and agreed to the seller's discount for the damage, I wouldn't worry about it. UPS can go after the seller for full or a percentage of the insurance payment returned.

John

UPS isn't the bad guy. The person that sold you the bike is the bad guy. He made a freight claim and had the value of the bike refunded to him. He gave you a partial reimbursement. You have the bike, the shipper has the money and UPS is the loser. The shipper should either have listened to you and not tried to rip UPS off or he should have given you a full refund so that UPS could collect the bike.

Since you didn't get the reimbursement and since you want to keep the bike, you need to have UPS deal with the shipper and not you. They will just bill him back for the claim amount since they can't collect the bike. It's fairly simple. You need to call 1-800-PICKUPS and straighten it out with them. I'm a fairly good sized UPS shipper. They are a reputable company. They're just out some money and they are doing what they would normally do.

Why keep the $105? The seller's a bit of a dork, but he sent that extra money in good faith, generously sharing what he thought was a windfall, not realizing he would have to give it back to UPS, and he doesn't deserve to be cheated out of it.

That doesn't make sense. Why would the seller be entitled to any part of the "windfall" when he doesn't own the damaged bike anymore? This seller sounds like a real slimeball, collecting a refund from UPS for damage to a bike he doesn't own.

The issue here is: Did the seller agree to sell the damaged bike to you for $450 or for $345? ($345 is the amount after the $105.) If he sent me everything but $345, I would interpret that as the sale price. Either way the seller is going to have a hard time proving it. The seller did a miserable job of handling this. Hard to tell if his intent was good or bad but either way he should pay the price, it was him that screwed up.

The story is pretty clear. The OP bought the bike for $655 including shipping. The bike arrived damaged by UPS and after discussing it, they agreed the seller would refund the buyer $255 to compensate for the damages. The buyer was completely satisfied. He got a bike for $400, and agreed to that price.

The seller then got a large sum from UPS (apparently not realizing they wanted the bike in exchange). He very honourably sent some of this money ($105) to the buyer who had not asked for it, and in fact had said he didn't want it. Then UPS started hassling for the bike, but the buyer doesn't want to give it up.

So now the seller has to repay part of the money to UPS and he has asked for the $105 back.

Which he should get.

My mistake for not reading the OP once again before responding. Your explanation makes sense.

R900 &FMW-No,UPS isn't the bad guy here.I initially saw them as the "bad guy" because of the out of the blue demand"we paid for it it is our bike!"-exactly those words!! I was pissed at that attitude and was obliged to remind them they HADN'T PAID ME ANYTHING,AND I owned the bike. They called 2 times -the 2nd call was slightly less heavy handed.I initiated the 3rd contact-calling UPS after I had talked with the seller.I just couldn't resist finding out how close"about $500" was to the actual amount UPS paid him-$617 it turns out.
Cooker-he isn't a dork.It is a little drawn out,but he-the seller-has $850 in his pocket now. If he had pack the bike correctly he would have $595.I have slightly changed the amounts in this thread because it happened 4 months ago.
The seller was paid $650(by me)+$617(by UPS)=$1267
The seller paid out $255(me)+ $105(to me)+$55(shipping)=$415
He has $852 in his pocket instead of $595.Slick Dork!!The selling price was $595.
He now wants me to pay the $119 for UPS's salvage fee.He is $243 richer than he would have been if he had done the packing right.If he pays the $119 he will still have $733 in his pocket-not the $595 price of the bike.
I don't really mind him making out at UPS's expense-they are big boys,and will take care of themselves.I mind him lying to UPS"I paid him for the dented bike,and can prove it",so they will go after me for the $119 instead of him.He also tried to scare me with"you do want to keep the bike,don't you?"The implication being that if I don't pay the $119,I would have the bike torn from my arms by hoards of UPS goons.
He shouldn't have sicced UPS on me-that isn't dorky,that is sneaky.He shouldn't have lied about the $617 and said "about $500". Lying isn't dorky- maybe a little stupid when I was sure as hell going to ask UPS how much they paid him.Stupid to claim he could prove that he gave me my $$ back when I can prove he didn't.
Still,he isn't too stupid.He will end up being paid at least $138 more than the original price-and he might just dodge UPS and end up with $243 better-not too stupid.Pretty good pay for packing a bike half azzed.
I do think his original intentions were good-he paid me for the dent-he even sent $105 he didn't have to and that I didn't want-pretty nice really.He just got greedy and stupid when he found out that UPS actually intended to collect "their bike".I suspect that he viewed his lies as white lies- that they really weren't going to make much of an effort to collect.
So he is typical-good and bad .Thanks.Charlie


.

To be pragmatic for a minute...

UPS is pestering you over $119 worth of busted bike. Do you think they will bother to sue you over it? Do you think they will hire a repo man to try to get it?

Of course not. It's only 119 bucks.

Since the seller sent you the $105 as part of the settlement for the bike, you could return that money to him. Otherwise, you should either give the bike or $119 to UPS. If it were me, and I wanted to keep the bike, as you appear to want to do, I would cough up the extra $14, give UPS the $119 for the salvage value of the frame, and be done with it. After all, you didn't ask for the $105 anyway.

Given that you did cooperate with the seller in his filing a claim with UPS, you could, in theory, be held liable for the return of the bike or payment of the salvage value. I suspect that in theory, UPS could claim that you and the seller are engaged in insurance fraud even if you are an innocent party to all this. It seems that $14 is a small price to pay to get this mess behind you. I would not trust the seller to send the money to UPS at this point. He already appearently accepted more than was his loss and would not pay the salvage value.

Don't blame UPS. They are simply trying to balance the books on this. They may have made a mistake in paying the claim before they got the bike, but that does not mean they are not entitled to either it or the salvage value.

supcom-Like I said earlier,a lot of folks-you for example-would just pay up or give up the bike because of the grief that UPS could cause them.No UPS won't sue me,they will turn me into a collection agency,and write a letter to the credit agencies"bad debt" etc.
I must have been unclear-the $255 and $105 were to compensate me for the lost value of the bike-not to"pay me for the bike".Why would I accept $360 as payment for a bike I just paid $650 for???He-NO ONE-paid me for the bike.He-the seller-paid me $255 and then $105 for the value the bike lost when the frame was dented.No one-I repeat-no one will buy a dented aluminum bike frame,especially an expensive one with thin light tubing..For example-take your nicest bike-dent it-is it worth less??It becomes a part bike-worth slightly less than you could sell the parts for on ebay.
Of course I co operated with the seller in filing his claim.Everyone co-operates with the seller in filing a claim-you have to communicate with the seller to tell him the pk arrived F up.You have to allow UPS to examine the item and packing to see if it is actually damaged.The recipient always cooperates in filing the claim,if he doesn't he doesn't get any money.UPS asked me to bring it to them so they could photograph it and the box.Sure in theory UPS could claim I was helping him engage in insurance fraud,but luckily for me UPS has lawyers that aren't brain dead-they would notice that there is absolutely no evidence of my engaging in fraud.Their debt collectors are going to look at the evidence-look at who they sent money to-and go after the money.They paid him for the bike-he said it was his-it wasn't-.The fact that he doesn't have possession of it will be a broad hint that even the dullest blades will pick up on.Whoever signed off on the payment to him while taking his word for it that he paid me for the bike,but doesn't have the bike-well they made a mistake.4 months ago UPS wanted me to give them the bike so they could return it to the shipper.I told them no way-I was keeping the bike,and was going to live with the dent-the seller was going to pay me for the lost value.
Well,we'll see.Thanks.Charlie.
supcom-sorry to jump on you,but I just can't rollover even if it would be easier .It would piss me off too much-I prefer to fight-especially since I have evidence that the bike is mine,and evidence that he lied to UPS.They probably recorded the call in which he claimed"he paid me for the bike and has the paypals to prove it.".-The UPS person seem to be reading a quote.

Ignore all future inquires, you're not going to jail, enjoy your new ride, and sleep well.

Let me just say this is an interesting thread, and I'm sorry, phoebeisis, you're being put through all this.......It's an imperfect situation, and that's the gist of it. If you had returned the bike for a full refund, including a refund for return shipping, and then let the seller work things out with UPS with the bike in his possession, then it would have been much more clear cut. But since you and the seller worked out an agreement regarding the damage, with you keeping the bike in your possession, with the seller on the other end dealing with UPS, it got complicated. You've certainly done nothing wrong on your end, the seller has gotten a little greedy and has indeed told some "white lies," and UPS was dumb to pay the seller for a bike he doesn't possess. The best case would be for the seller to come clean with UPS and settle up with them for the honest amount (with him netting out at the actual price you paid for the bike before it was damaged), and then UPS would only be out the amount that their damaging the frame caused their customer (the seller). You keep the bike, and all would be well. In thinking about it, it seems it's the seller that has some adjustments to make. Seems to me that ought to include letting you keep the $105 he unexpectedly sent you, in exchange for the trouble his greediness and white lies have caused you-

For future reference - paragraphs are your friend.

I agree with this. I think it's a mistake to simply ignore the phone calls from UPS. There is a good possibility they will sue them. Call them up and explain the situation. You didn't do anything wrong. The truth will set you free.

Perhaps I misunderstood, but my impression from your posts was that the $105 was over and above the amount that you had negotiated with the seller to compensate you for the damage to the bike. If so, then to refund this money to UPS would not represent any additional loss to you. Apparently I misunderstood. Good luck to you.

SUPCOM-I have thrown out a lot of numbers,and haven't been consistent with the amts because I hadn't looked up the amts-paypal-and it was about 4 months ago.
The actual negotiations for a partial refund were kinda casual-no documents,no lawyers,no contracts.
I initially put 3 options on the table
1)All my $$ back,and I'll send the bike back(ups would return it free)
2)Give me $350-roughly my guess on how much the dent would drop the selling price
3)Open to suggestions.
He came back with"yeah,I understand loss in resale,lets do this-I'll pay you 65% of the $350-roughly $255-and if UPS pays me,Ill send you a bit more."
Well,his offer sounded great to me,so I took it.He sent the $255 with a note"if I get more ,I'll send you some,etc".I responded with,:I'm happy,whatever you get is yours."
That is how it stood until 2 wks ago when a $105 Paypal arrived with a note,"UPS finally paid the claim,I said I would send more,here it is."
10 days ago I got the 1st UPS demand call,"we paid for the bike,it is ours."
I was very happy with the original resolution.Heck,I wasn't particularly concerned after the 1st call-not really concerned after the second really.I knew that there was no way I was going to give UPS my bike,and I sure as hell wasn't going to give UPS any money.They-UPS-hadn't given me any money.I hadn't made any claim.I had proof that I bought the bike,and proof that he hadn't refunded my $650.Heck,I could even dig up the old emails(not that they couldn't be faked).All they had was a SELLER'S(as in he sold it) claim that he owned a bike he had just been paid for.This sort of situation is the sort of thing collection agencies-and UPS commonly deal with.Their strategy is to press both parties untill they get their money or salvage item.The UPS person(I think she might be in some sort of separate legal entity-not quite UPS) said as much,"it is between you and the shipper,we just want our money or the broken bike."
My guess is that they will continue to call both of us,and will start threatening me"credit rating,suit etc" if they don't get paid.I gave the UPS person the same blow by blow I just gave you.They-she-didn't imply she would back off me,and she didn't say she believed me.I doubt they will actually file a suit,but they might send me a nasty "lawyer letter." I don't picture them making a lot more effort to collect. It is such a small debt that it isn't even worth selling to one of those bottom feeding collection agencies.
Sorry if I was a bit sharp earlier-I will still angry with the shipper for spinning those dumb lies.
I'm feeling better disposed toward him;he treated me very fairly-until he sicced UPS or their collection agency on me.He was a pretty good guy until the end.Thanks.Charlie
PS I would never say" it isn't the money,it's the principle"(at least not with a straight face), to explain why I did something;IT IS ALWAYS THE MONEY!.However,this time it is mainly because I'm angry about being bugged by UPS,and angry that the seller tried to "scare" me into paying.Not a great idea to act while you're still angry.