UPS is trying to steal my MTB!!
 

I had 2 odd phones calls from UPS in the last 7 days;the gist of it is that they want to take my Giant NRS.One of them actually said" we paid for it, it is ours"!They might have paid someone,but it wasn't me!!
The story
1)About 4 months ago I bought a 16.5 NRS for $600+$55 shipping.One chainwheel was completely stripped of teeth-this explains the slightly low price.
2)I paid-paypal the $655 immediately,and it arrived about 1 wk later.
3)Unfortunately it arrived in a very beat up box-crushed and punctured.
4)The frame was dented in a couple of places.
5)I contacted the buyer-we bargained a little bit-and he sent me $200 for the lost value of the frame.I was happy with this.
6)He also asked me to bring it to UPS so they could see the box-dent etc.I did this-they took pictures etc.They also wanted to send it back to him to which I replied-NFW!!I paid for it,I'm sure not sending it back to him without getting all my $$ back.
7)I was happy-he-the seller said he would pursue UPS to try to get them to make good on the damages.He also said he would send me some more $$,if they made good.I emailed back and told him,I was happy with how things stood,if he got any $$ it was his.
8)2 weeks ago -out of the blue-I get $105 from him via paypal.I sent him a note-thanks etc.I was pretty surprised,but I wasn't going to look this horse in the mouth!!
9)1 wk ago I get a call from UPS.They"want to know when they can pick up the bike"-WTF??The UPS person said "they paid the claim,the bike was theirs!!".I told them they hadn't paid me jack-the bike was mine.They then asked if it had been repaired or replaced-"No".I told them to take it up with the guy who made the claim.
10)Today-repeat of the call"we paid for it,it is ours". I once again told them they hadn't paid me-take it up with the guy they paid-the bike wasn't his to sell.
What do you think of this crap??I suspect the next thing is going be be some CS letter from a lawyer"sue you-ruin your credit etc".Fair chance I will end up having to hire a lawyer to get these UPS idiots off my back.
Just what I need-Thanks.Charlie
PS I have changed every part on the bike but the headset and the rear wheel,so there is no way I will give up this bike!

Tell them you sent the bike back to the seller, therefore you no longer have it. Seems like the seller apparently received claim money from UPS and also have most of your money. He did well.

So tell them thay can have all the bits you replaced :D

Jur has a good point, send them the damaged items if they want them.

You have the paypal receipt,the bike, and hopefully have not signed any papers releaseing the damaged property to them. Hold your ground.

The damaged item is the frame.
 

The frame is the only damaged part,and the frame,HS,and rear wheel are the only original parts.
I'm sure not going to send them the frame.They didn't pay me anything,and I did all the paying thru paypal so I have proof I paid for it.
The $200 he sent me was to pay for the loss in resale value of the frame-no one would buy a dented aluminum frame;so the bike cost me $450 instead of $650-with the added $105 it cost $345 instead of the original$650.I was really stunned-and happy-when the extra $105 arrived.
Their problem is with the guy they sent the $$ to.They think they "bought" the frame from him.It wasn't his to sell-which explains why is has been sitting in my spare bedroom-bike room in New Orleans for the last 4 months,and not in the spare bedroom-bikeroom of the guy they sent the $$ to..
My guess is that he filed a claim and they asked"was it replaced or repaired"-he must have said"yes".They then asked him-in some fashion,what his loss was.Here is where he might have veered off course.If he said anything other than "I paid Charlie $200+ for the dent and said I pay him a bit more after-if I get anything"(I originally figured it was worth about 1/2 of what I paid for it-just the parts-so it was worth about $250 after it was dented).Maybe he told them that a replacement frame would be about $800??Worse,maybe he told them that a replacement bike would be about $2000??
I don't know what he got from them,but they think they bought a dented bike from him.
Oh well,I expect I will hear from them again.Thanks.Charlie
Why won't this forum allow me to edit the Mike bike-MY BIKE??It is really hard to bring this site up lately??

THey have no personal information of your, keep the bike. Or go find a 10 dollar garage sale frame and stick it in the box, let em have that.

Write to the president of the company--a librarian can help you find him/her in a business directory. Tell the president that you are outraged at what they are doing and you are going to continue to tell everyone you can what his/her awful company is trying to do you. The "everyone" you tell can include the press and those annoying consumer advocates that entertain the public by putting companies such as UPS on the spot when they pull this kind of caca.

I've been a bit unclear.The parts I replaced(seat,seatpost,levers,fork,front wheel,pedals,one chainwheel,both derails) weren't broken;I replaced them because I like to tinker-change things-make them more to my liking.The removed parts went on another bike-bike that has been sold.
This am I got a phone message from the seller.He says UPS has been bugging him -etc.He wants me to return the $105 to him and he will make UPS happy.He didn't give any details of his transaction with UPS-There is a fair chance I will do just that;I never expected the extra $105,I was happy with how we left things 4 months back-I had a dented bike-still functional,if slightly dangerous-that cost me about $450 instead of the original $655 for the undented bike.
The only thing that gives me pause is he said on the message"you want to keep the bike"?I was pissed when I heard that.He knew that there was no question of me giving up a $655 for the $200+$100 he gave me.I see it as his trying to rewrite history and trying to buffalo-scare me into coughing up the $100.
Now he is going to have to explain in detail what the heck happened;most importantly he will have to tell me how much UPS paid him,and just what he told them.
I still can't change the Mike in the title to MY.Thanks all.Charlie

To me, it sounds like the guy may simply have made an honest mistake. If he was truly scamming, he wouldn't have sent you the extra money - either the $200 or the $105.

he sent you the $105 without you asking for it, he tried to pull a fast one with UPS, seems like they're slowly catching on.... he made his bed, he can lie in it. but yeah, the nice thing to do would be to send back the $105 if and only if he comes clean with you.

You can't blame UPS. They have every right to keep the damaged item if they pay a claim for it.

But that's not the OP's problem either,...he paid for the item and the claim was submitted by the seller after the sale was complete. The claim should have been for the discount off the sale price, not the whole bike.

Document everything. Send the guy the $105, and wash your hands of it.

Burden of proof is on them.

Ask them for their proof that they paid you for that bicycle, since it is currently in your possession. Sounds like the guy is trying to rip off UPS, but that's not your problem.

I just talked to the seller.This is his story.
1)After 4 months UPS finally paid the claim.He didn't volunteer what he told UPS his losses were.
He also didn't volunteer what UPS paid him.I point blank asked,"how much did they pay you?"His reply,"about $500."
He says that UPS wants the bike or the salvage value of it back-$119.He wants me to pay him the $105 ,so he can pay UPS $119- apparently he plans to pay $14 of the $119.This way-he explained"you can keep the bike,and UPS will quit bugging you.".
I reminded him that the bike is mine-.
Ignoring shipping He has been paid $600+$500=$1150 he has put out $255+$105+$=$360
He has $790 in his pocket now for a bike he was supposed to be paid $600 for.If he pays UPS the $119 he will still have $671 in his pocket for a $600 bike. You might have noticed the $255 isn't the $200 I originally remembered him paying me-I checked paypal-he paid me $255 net $247.
I was happy with the original deal-$255.I don't think this guy is a thief;he probably just made a claim for the frame-a new frame would have cost close to $800-UPS discounted it to $500,and he figured assumed it would end there.He probably willfully ignored the statement that UPS would have sent him when he signed off on the claim-it probably said"the broken frame is ours".
My inclination is to tell him"pay UPS,if they don't bug me for 2 months or so,I'll send you the $105."
I'm really tempted to give UPS a call to find out exactly what they paid him,and exactly what they want from him.This might be a mistake,but curiosity might get the best of me.Thanks for the ideas.Charlie

You made a deal with him to accept the $255 refund. He sent you an extra $105, for reasons we don't fully understand. Was it somehow part of covering up a scam? Was it an overzealous attempt to be fair to you? We don't know. All we know is, you paid the agreed price for the bike, and made a deal to accept $255 in compensation for damage.
Send back the $105 and be happy. The rest is between him and UPS.

I had this same deal over a $400 power tool I got on Ebay. The tool was damaged when I got it so I called the seller and told him. Then I spent $86 to get the tool repaired and sent a copy of the bill to the seller, He filed a claim with UPS and I described the damage over the phone when UPS called. Well the seller apparently claimed a total loss with UPS and received a check from UPS for the full amount and then he sent me the $86. 2 weeks later UPS calls to tell me that they settled with the seller and want to collect the tool. I said no way! I haven't been reimbursed for the $400 I paid for the tool nor the shipping costs I paid. UPS then said it was up to the seller to pay me. I said until I get paid you aint getting sheot! UPS called once more and left a message and I haven't heard from them since. ( 2 years ago)

UPS is entitled to have the bike if they paid the seller for the full value of the bike. It appears that the seller filled a claim for the full value of the bike (perhaps it was only insured for $500). He should have filed a claim for the loss of value or repair cost, which in this case would have been the $360 he paid you. When this type of claim is paid, the item does not have to be returned.

It seems that the seller is being greedy. He sold the bike to you for $600, the loss of value to you agreed to was $360. He should have received only the $360 from UPS that he is out. To file a claim for more than that sounds like insurance fraud to me.

The seller needs to return the $140 to UPS. When this is done, UPS will leave both of you alone. I wouldn't worry about returning the $105, if you do he will still receive more than he originally bargained for - which still sounds like insurance fraud.

cooker-I was unclear on the $105.Look at #7 in my 1 st post.When he sent the $255 I figured it was over with for me.Now at the time I originally wanted $300 from him-half the value of the bike.We bargained a bit and settled on $255 and he just threw in"and if I get more from UPS,I'll send you more." I told him whatever he got from UPS was his,I was happy as it stood.Heck,I figured I was SOL;I sure wasn't going to sue him for $300;the only hold I had on him was bad feedback,and he would retaliate with bad feedback,so that is no hold at all.Then out of the blue 10 days ago,he sent $105 via Paypal??Why??I don't know,best guess is that he said he would send more,he was a man of his word,so he sent more??
Heck,I was extremely surprised,but since my wife and I are out of work-New Orleans-Katrina-I was happy to see the $$.
The guy strikes me as a straight shooter.It would cost $800 to get a new frame-$500 for a used frame the UPS screwed up seems about right.Now,if he actually got $800 or more for the frame,he is getting greedy,and is trying to pull a fast one.
I would just as soon give him the $105 back,but I really don't want to seem to be colluding with him to defraud UPS-SINCE I'M NOT!!I don't want to be seen as getting caught with my hand in the cookie jar.This baby isn't mine.
velomad-yes,I suspect that our situations are identical.We paid for something that was screwed up by UPS.The seller paid us what we figured was an ok amount to make us happy.The seller neglected to tell us or UPS that they no longer owned the item,and apparently agreed to "sell" something they no longer owned.
OK I just talked with UPS's collection agent-pleasant enough person.
The real story is that they paid him $595+$22 for the actual original shipping charge-over $600,not the "about $500" he said,unless $617 is about $500.
So he was paid $655+$617=$1272 his out of pocket is $355+$22(actual shipping charge)=$377.
He has $895 in his pocket for a bike he sold for $600+$33=$633 .The $33 is his profit on shipping,I don't begrudge him that,the $55 shipping was clearly stated-he can charge whatever he wants as long as he is upfront about it.He has $262 more in his pocket because of the dinging of the bike.If he pays the $119,he will be $143 to the better.
Hmmm,I wish he had given me the straight story-that he got $617 not "about $500."
I will just let it sit for a while,and think on it.Thanks for all the ideas.Charlie

I'm going to let him swing in the wind for awhile;he can pay UPS the $119.If he pays them,and they quit bugging me,I'll probably send him $105.I have 2 reasons for not paying him now:
1)He lied to UPS and told them "I paid him for the bike,and I have the paypal receipts to prove it."This pisses me off.He sicced UPS on me,and lied.He didn't pay me for the bike-he paid me about 35% for the dent-and he tried to bluff them,and me.
2)He gave me the "you want to keep the bike?" crap today,when he knew we had resolved that issue 4 months ago when he declined to refund my $655.I would have sent him the bike back-it was his choice to take the bike back,and give a refund,or to pay for the dent.He was trying to bluff me into rolling over with fear that UPS was going to sue me-ruin credit(who cares,I own my house,and credit cards aren't really much of a plus-I would spend a lot less $$ without CC's).
I think his intentions were mostly good-he could have just not given me anything-but greed got the best of him.I can understand that impulse,but he shouldn't have tried to get me to take the hit,and he should have given me a "heads up." I'm mainly pissed about the "I paid him for the bike,and I can prove it,"-that is pure BS,and it caused UPS to go after me.
If I had been in his shoes,I would have paid the $119,and have been happy to get >$743 for a $600 bike.Instead he wants to end up with $862 for a $600 bike.
Thanks.Charlie

So, you knew the seller was going to file a claim with UPS. You should have known that if a claim is filed with a shipper or insurance company they are usually going to want the item that was claimed against. Consider the hassle a lesson learned.

SB

Soonerbent-yes,of course I knew he was going to file a claim with ups.Hey,I brought the bike and box to UPS to photograph for just that purpose..
What lesson have I learned-that folks are sneaky ,stupid and dishonest-I learned that about 50 years ago??
I assumed that he wasn't going to be stupid enough to lie on a point of fact that could be easily checked.He did!!He claimed he paid me for the bike,and it was now his.He even claimed that he had the paypal receipts to prove it.Duh,I have to paypal receipts to prove that his claims are BS.
What he should have done was pretty simple-tell them the truth-tell them the bike was dented,but I was going to keep it,and he would pay any salvage value from his claim!!The frame was worth pretty close to zero on resale.
There is no reason I would assume he was going to file for a total loss-other than my understanding of human nature-folks get greedy,sneaky,and stupid with insurance companies because they figure a big company won't follow up on a small claim.
He will come out just fine-~$750 for a $600 bike after he pays UPS the salvage $$.In fact his strategy worked just fine for him.He ends up $150 richer-maybe $270 richer if he just ignores UPS.
I end up with my faith in human nature unchanged.Thanks.Charlie
PS UPS Hasn't agreed to back off on me.If he doesn't pay them they will come right back at me.I will end up having to prove I own the bike-I can,so they will go back at him.

Soonerbent-yes,of course I knew he was going to file a claim with ups.Hey,I brought the bike and box to UPS to photograph for just that purpose..
What lesson have I learned-that folks are sneaky ,stupid and dishonest-I learned that about 50 years ago??
I assumed that he wasn't going to be stupid enough to lie on a point of fact that could be easily checked.He did!!He claimed he paid me for the bike,and it was now his.He even claimed that he had the paypal receipts to prove it.Duh,I have to paypal receipts to prove that his claims are BS.
What he should have done was pretty simple-tell them the truth-tell them the bike was dented,but I was going to keep it,and he would pay any salvage value from his claim!!The frame was worth pretty close to zero on resale.
There is no reason I would assume he was going to file for a total loss-other than my understanding of human nature-folks get greedy,sneaky,and stupid with insurance companies because they figure a big company won't follow up on a small claim.
He will come out just fine-~$750 for a $600 bike after he pays UPS the salvage $$.In fact his strategy worked just fine for him.He ends up $150 richer-maybe $270 richer if he just ignores UPS.
I end up with my faith in human nature unchanged.Thanks.Charlie
PS UPS Hasn't agreed to back off on me.If he doesn't pay them they will come right back at me.I will end up having to prove I own the bike-I can,so they will go back at him.

This is insane! All these people telling you to send back the money. If I were you I would stop answering phone calls from UPS, as well as from this seller. Here is how I see it: You legally purchased an item from the seller on ebay. It legally became your property after the seller accepted payment from paypal.

So now you own the bike. The seller contracts with a shipper to ship the bike. The shipper is UPS in this case. I didn't read whether or not he took out insurance with the shipper or not but it is irrelevant. So, the seller ships you the bike. You receive it and see that the bike is damaged. WHo's responsibility is it at this point? --------> THE SELLER. He sold you the bike and hired a shipper. Has nothing to do with you! So now you contact seller and tell him bike is damaged.

This is where the seller should have offered you either a refund or compensation. Looks like you took compensation. So now you keep damaged bike and receive extra monies. That should have been end of story. I would have told UPS that you would send them a pic of damage if they wanted but that you had reached an agreement with the seller to KEEP the bike in exchange for getting some of your money back.

I would have never hauled the bike to UPS or wherever. Hell with them, at this point, remember you are already happy. You have bike and compensation. Let the seller fight it out with them. He hired them. That's why you buy insurance when you ship.

If the seller didn't like it this way, he should have requested that you send the WHOLE bike back and refund all of your money. Possibly you would pay for return shipping. Again, I would just lay low and ignore them. You don't owe UPS anything. NOr the other guy for that matter. Let them hash it out. Don't you have caller ID?

Lastly, why would UPS want the bike? You own the bike and paid $400 for it. The seller is out the $200 or so for the damages. Again, let him argue with UPS over that. As for the extra money he sent, if you view that $ as part of the compensation for the bike being damaged then keep it. It that money represents something else based on your discussions with seller than you must return it.