SemperFi

I'm 55 (birthday was yesterday) and have had the back problem for 20 years. Most of the time I'm ok because after all this time I pretty much know what I can and cannot do. Sometimes it's just a sneeze and I'm out of commission for a few days. If I drop something I squat like a girl (no offense ladies) to pick it up.
Anyway it's interesting to hear that you have a similar problem and find the drops comfortable. I had thought that I was pretty much decided on straight bars but now I'm not so sure again.
Which bikes with drops would you recommend that have a more straight up geometry?

starbright57

That's my problem too. It comes from a lifetime of sitting at a desk. Truck drivers also have the same problem. I went to a physical therapist and he says it is my hip flexors.

I also looked on the internet and found a group talking about the McKenzie method of back exercises. These help me. My back hurts because I have been bending forward all my life. The McKenzie method has you bend back wards. The first time the physical therapist suggested I do that, I couldn't believe that I could not bend back wards. So my back is tight. Do a Google search on McKenzie back therapy..or something along that line. Hopefully, you will find a couple sites with pictures of what to do. Don't do too much of it right away, or ask your chiro what he thinks first. I ordered a book from Amazon.com that this person wrote. He also wrote on sore necks. It does help my back. I wish I were more faithful in doing them. When I ride a bicycle, it is better that I sit up straight and stretch them the muscles that way.

DataJunkie

Thanks. I will take a peak at that method.
My back issue was originally caused by a mishap in a weights class in high school. Plus, I do not sit too much. I'm a bit restless and will pace while pondering an issue or walk back and forth between our data center and my desk. That and my visits with my coworkers that usually entail hour long discussions about bbqing.

geo8rge

A Giant Revive might interest you

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/030....asp?range=279

shokhead

Thats why i went with a Roubaix.

HiYoSilver

Revive is a good compromise bike, halfway between a full bent and other bikes.

Glad to hear DataJunkie got out of the dark side.

Blackberry

Whatever you do:

*High handlebars
*Low gearing for hills
*Do less than you think you should or can. Easy spinning while in recovery.
*Core (ab and back) exercises
*Lots of stretching. Yes backward stretching. (but watch out for forward bending. You can do all the forward bends lying down--and not putting your discs in harm's way. For example instead of standing quad stretches where you bend forward; lie on your side and do them. )

I'm there with ya. Disc problems suck but they are managable.

SemperFi

Anyone have any experience with the Trek Pilot 1.0? It's a drop bar bike with a relaxed geometry which I test rode a few weeks ago. The only thing I didn't like about the bike were the Shimano Sora STI shifters.
Are all shifters on drop bar bikes like that?
I also rode the Specialized Sirrus Comp (straight bars) and really liked that bike. The shifters, which were Shimano R-440-9, Rapidfire, were so much better than the Sora STI's.

Banzai

STI style shifters, or "brifters", all pretty much mech the same. The Sora has this cheesy sharp little thumb tab release though. If all you've ever used is trigger shifters, then brifters may seem awkward at first. They are, however, irritatingly ergonomically perfect, allowing you to brake and shift while firmly planted in either the drops or on the hoods or ramps.
When I converted my flat-bar roadie commuter to drops, I didn't put brifters on because they cost a butt load when you buy them seperately (approx $300!). My solution was to have our aluminum shop re-tool the clamp diameter on my R-440 shifters so they would fit a drop bar. It works, but it's not as ergonomically correct as an STI type system.
R-440s are nice shifters. The only way they may be "better" than the Sora is that they are considered a Tiagra level component. However, the ergonomics of a "brifter" have already been discussed. And they won't fit a drop bar without some fairly advanced tooling.

Shimano also makes a shifter called the R-500, which is an 8 speed brifter of Tiagra level quality. Much better than the Sora brifter, but still 8 speed. Also not stock on a single bike I've ever seen, and $300 for the pair. Ouch.

Conundrum

I ride a Giant TCR with a long 6 degree stem on it (short legs/long torso). The OCR is a slightly more relaxed geometry. You can do alot with set up to over come the leaning over normally associated with drop bars and the variety of hand positions is a big benefit to me. The brifters are all pretty much the same, but you can get inline brake handles installed right across the top of drop bars. These allow you brake control while riding with your hands on top of bars - shifting will still be controlled by the brifters though.

I'd forgotten the name of the stretch program I was doing but it is McKenzie. These have helped me amazingly.

SemperFi

Granted, I am not used to a drop bar bike but I found the Sora's most uncomfortable and awkward.
As I mentioned previously I did like the Sirrus Comp and the Trek 7.5 FX. Would it be very expensive to change the FX to a more "road" type gearing so that it is comparable to the Sirrus Comp or would the cost make up the price difference between the two bikes? (FX lists for $699, Comp for $880)

Banzai

Just me personally, but I like the rear gearing options on the FX. That 32t is a nice bailout for when the back is troubling you, or the legs just aren't in the game. I have a 12-32 8 speed on my roadie, with a 52t largest front chainring, so I'm crossing the streams in all kinds of ways. I don't think the FXs gearing is bad at all. I'm not crazy about the shifters, just because I like the 440s better.
If you felt compelled to change it though...the rear would be cheap, as low as $20 for a new cassette. Front chainrings are more expensive, so you'd have to look it up. Probably wouldn't equal or exceed the Comp, but there's really no need to do it.
But, we kinda had this discussion in the other thread. What's driving up the cost on the Comp is the Carbon...which is my least favorite part about it.
When my wife first got her slick drop bar bike, she wasn't fond of the brifters either. (They were Sora.) The bike itself was not right, and the next day we took it back, and got one with Tiagra shifters. More fond, but still not overly fond. 6 months later however, and it's the only bike she'll ride. Her only complaint is that sometimes when shifting the front to the largest chainring when she's tired that the push is difficult, almost too difficult. (I think that's why Lance runs a friction downtube front shifter on some of his bikes.)
I don't have back problems, so I can't really give you "expert" advice. Depending on the geometry, a flat bar bike will either have more weight on your butt, with forces traveling directly up your spine, or if it is built like a more traditional roadie, will have the same weight distribution as a bike with drops when on the tops or hoods, just minus the extra hand postions and wind refuge. But, depending on your back, the flats may be best. I'm afraid I can't adequately address that issue.
If you go flatbar, I'd get the FX, and put some 700/28 armadillos on it. Then I'd go check out the trekking bar at Nashbar, currently being unloaded for $10, I believe, if the single hand postion gets uncomfortable. $15 more on handlbar wrap, and you're set.
For me, depending on the day, between 8-10 miles is the cutoff for a comfortable ride on a flat bar bike. Depending on geometry, the butt starts to hurt, or the hands and wrists start to hurt. Just me though.

Banzai

How about the Sirrus Sport for $660? See? Remove the carbon, and that price gets real competitive! $15-$20 for a 12-32 rear cassette if you felt the need, but otherwise perfect! (If you're set on flat bars, that is.)
440 shifters, 700x28 flak jackets, cro-moly fork and steerer, body geometry saddle and grips...I'd take that over the FX.

FarHorizon

RECUMBENT!

SemperFi

Banzai, that's a pretty good suggestion.
Generally, what is "lost" between an 9 speed and an 8 speed besides the fact that there are 3 less gears and what advantage would there be to have a 12-32 rear cassette? (The FX is 11-32 9 speed, the Sport is 12-26 8 speed. Sorry if the questions sound ignorant.

doghouse

In 2003, I was close to where you are. I bought the 7500fx. Loved the gearing and the upright geometry, but hated the lack of hand positions on the straight bar, even when bar ends were added.

Two yeas ago, my son bought a Trek 1000. I tired it and once I overcame my initial scare that "these Soras don't feel right," was convinced that this was where I need to go. So, last year, I had the bars and shifters changed to Bontrager road bars and Sora brake/shifters. I am not mechanic and it cost me $300 installed. (Almost half the price of a Trek 7.3fx.) I loved it!

Everybody complains about Sora's but, to me, they are still better than stem mounted 10 speed friction shifters or reaching for them on the downtube we grew up with. Dialed in, Soras are fast,adequate and a bit noisy. Nice for an old guy to hear the gear shift to know it happened, sometimes.

It is said it is all but impossible to shift from the drops with Soras. I will agree with that for shifting into a faster gear, and for climbing, at 52, I rarely need to shift from the drops anyway! If the bike fits you, right size frame, and stem length adjusted for you, you should have no more trouble with the Soras than the thumb shifters on the hybrids.

This year, I wanted to try to ride faster with my son and the FX was way too much work. So I bought a new road bike last month, a 2005 close out Specialized Allez. Has the upright geometry and I reversed the stem to be even higher; shame on me! And it too has Sora's and they run great.

If you need the high end granny gears for hills and really windy days, buy the 7.3FX. It's a great place to start. If you don't need those gears, then I'd buy the Pilot 1.0. I would not hesitate to ask the bike shop to swap the stem to the correct length and height on either one.

doghouse

To answer the questions on gear issues, go to this page,
https://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

Plug the following into the blanks:
Choose your tire size from the drop down menu (700x35c tires FX or 700x25c Pilot)
use 170 for the crank length
then pick your RPMs (I like 80 or 90)
plug in the sizes of the front chain rings, 48-38-28 FX or 52-42-30 Pilot
then pick your gear sizes from the drop down menu 9 speed 11-32 or 8 speed 12-26
Press "calcluate."
Repeat as necessary

Banzai

According to some, 8 speeds have a reputation for being slightly more reliable, due to a slightly larger chain, and less sandwiched gears. Others claim that there's no difference. The only thing that's "lost" is the 9 speed will offer you an ever so slightly shorter "jump" between gear ratios (on account of theres more of them), making it possible to dial in that "sweet spot" for your conditions. In other words if an 8 speed and a nine speed span the same distance...say, 12-32, the 9 speed will have shorter jumps. However, for me personally, I've never been able to tell the difference...my wife's bike is 9, and mine is 8. If I were a racer I probably would be able to tell, but then I'd probably also be running 10 speed Dura Ace. Since I just commute, I find the gear that's about right.

Having a 12-32 would lose you some more "fine tuning", as the geometric differences between individual gears gets larger. However, having a largest rear chainring of 32 to pair with a small front chainring of 32 or 48 could be a valuable bailout if the back or the legs just...can't...push...any...more.

Not to be condescending if you already know this, but what those numbers mean is that the rear cassette spans from 12 (smallest) to 32 (largest), with 8 total speeds. (Or 9, if that's what you're looking at.) Big rear with small front (sts) equals more pedal spin per wheel revolution. Small rear with big front (again, sts) equals less pedal spin per wheel revolution. The front cranks on these bikes aren't TOO different from one another, so I'm leaving their numbers out of this paragraph.

A 12-26 is not a bad gearing either. You could ride it, and find some hills to see if you need the "bailout." My bike is a 12-32, but in my commute because of that I NEVER need my smallest front chainring. I keep this rather large rear cassette though because I'm planning a bike tour in the not too distant future, and you never know if the day will come when a really really steep climb/gale force winds/fatigue may finally require that last gearing option.

I hope that helped a little bit?

If you're gonna get flat bars, once you remove the carbon and go to a Sirrus sport, at nearly equal price I think I prefer that one over the FX. It's a little more of a "road bike", yet still not really aggressive at all. With the sole exception of the rear cassette gearing, it's practically my Fuji commuter (the one I later converted to drops at some expense) with the equipment on it. And while I can't vouch for that exact bike, and can vouch for the componentry. By the way, I still use those R-440 shifters on my drops...it took some aircraft aluminum techs a bit of work, but we made them fit!

Daily Commute

I'm not so sure. Sheldon Brown argues that riding with drop bars puts your back in an arch, which absorbs shock better than when it's upright. Sheldon isn't a doctor, but that makes sense. In any case, I don't think it's safe to assume that an upright position is better for the back.

My advice would be to try something different from what you have now, and see if it makes things better or worse.

I recently hurt my back, and the key to riding pain free is to listen to my body and pace myself accordingly. If I push too hard it when it hurts, I will hurt all evening.

But most importantly, see a doctor if you haven't already. Back pain could "just" be painful, or it could be a sign of something really bad. Even if it's "just" painful, the doctor can give you meds that work better better than Advil. Since your pain is 20 years old, ask if PT would be helpful.

DannoXYZ 

Gel-saddle with springs...

SemperFi

Banzai, your posts are very detailed and educational and I thank you for the time and effort. I had to read your last one slowly a few times but I'm starting to understand the gearing options a bit better.

huhenio

I got a microdiskectomy performed in my back a few years back. And without doubt I can tell you that the more racing like position is better four your back. I tried everything .... suspension post and gel saddle to no avail.

Go drops ... deep ....and tell me later

SemperFi

I tend to analyze something to death before I buy (cars, electronics, etc). That's why I find everyone's comments of value.

Daily Commute

Good luck, and let us know what works (and doesn't work) for you.

SemperFi

Easter Sunday and everythings closed up tight. Wanted to test ride again today!