Hmmm, it confirmed MY opinion of freedom-hating "liberals".

Great, now you've brought a flamewar here.

Can't there be a middle ground between "gun nut" and the "Curl up in a ball and die" school of thought?

There are a bunch of laws about brass knuckles, switchblades, and other things, but in the US, most states have yet to pass legislation on ownership of expanding batons, but rules on carrying them do vary. I know a few states actually require police certification if civilians want to carry them. The best way to find out the different laws is to talk to your DA. Until recently I thought that they were illegal in michigan because of a couple different idiot cops and a uniform store. (Again, talk to your DA.) I have and love both a 26" and 31" ASP. Although I highly reccomend JL USA for buying baton(s) I definitely wouldn't buy that piece of crap you posted the link to. Armament Systems and Procedures is the finest company in the buisness in my opinion, and you simply don't need a cheap imported spring loaded baton. A regular one will extend as quickly as you could possibly need, plus you can get replacement parts which you are less likely to need anyway.

Using a telescoping baton properly takes training and experience. They are a less-than-lethal method that can turn lethal if improperly used. I had to go through the training course, and you are taught primarily to strike at joints such as the knee, wrist and elbow. The intent is to disable the attacker or to cause him/her sufficient pain so that they comply with your commands. Striking the head, face or spine is a definite no-no insofar as that can cause death or permanent neurological injury, exposing you to substantial criminal and civil liability. Unfortunately, if you are in the middle of a knock-down drag-out fight with someone, who may be chemically impaired and is struggling violently with you, your ability to carefully choose your strike point goes out the window. Ask me how I know this! There is also always the possibility that the other party is able to disarm you and then beat you to death with your own baton. If the baton is your sole method of self-defense, you may be up the creek without a paddle at that point.

Suffice it to say that although I still have my old ASP baton, I do not carry it with me on the bicycle. Noting that you are 18 and in Oregon, I would think that pepper spray is your best bet.

PS: Many state laws, insofar as you look them up on the 'Net, say nothing about batons, night sticks, or telescoping batons. But they likely say something about blackjacks and saps. The sticky wicket comes in that there may be criminal case law in your jurisdiction that defines a baton as falling within the definition of a sap or blackjack. If you want to be absolutely sure about your state laws, you should consult an attorney, or if you possess the proper legal research skills, can do a search in your state's criminal statutory and case law to try and find an answer.

Although I agree with you about watching where you go, you have vastly underestimated the capabilities of a baton. Granted its useless against a gun, but against knives and/or multiple assailants they are great. I know a cop who along with his partner took on about 20 guys in a bar with their batons and beat the **** out of them, and managed to leave the scene unscathed.

Since you brought it up, please do tell us all about your opinion of gun nuts. Please also define "gun nut".

I'd like to know what he says, too. Don't forget, Flamingmb says he's a minor, so it's possible there are 2 answers. Thanks for checking!

Portland isn't an overwhelmingly scary place, but maybe that's my perception because I grew up in Detroit. I tend to have to control laughter when people here complain about "bad neighborhoods". The one security measure I plan to invest in is a handlebar cell phone holder. It's the one thing that couldn't be turned against me in a confrontation.

My advice when evaluating advice on which weapon to use in self defense is to begin by ignoring anyone who talks about this weapon or that weapon without relaying the time he or she used it. That's just stroking.

Living in Portland you're lucky to have several places to study Mixed Martial Arts, also known as Ultimate Fighting. Although competitive in orientation it's also the best place to learn the all-around nature of fighting. It is one of few martial arts that follows a scientific method, by having controlled experiments (fights with rules) that determine what might happen under uncontrolled conditions (an attack in the real world).

If you don't want to get hit you can study grappling, or Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, and obtain possibly a more effective education in self-defense, by learning instincts that will resolve a conflict quicker than hitting will. I myself took a year of Judo and count myself substantially better off for it. I have defended myself with it many times...one memorable time I was 'tai otoshi'd by a wire on the floor and executed a graceful roll!

Human conflicts are overrated; having studied the dynamics of them I know when to be afraid. Most of the time I'm not.

As for carrying a weapon...don't. The only weapon likely to prove useful if you don't know hand-to-hand combat is a gun, and that gun is also less likely to prove useful than people want it to given the prevalence of violence emerging from within close quarters. Anything else must be deployed from a basic platform of hand-to-hand competence, or anyone with a gift for brawling or some training is going to take you off balance, knock you over and put the hurt on you weapon or not.

You're a younger guy with lots of youthful flexibility and I hope a good attitude to go with it. Do a semester of ultimate fighting and you'll see the entire picture differently, and you'll get an explosive sort of strength that cycling just can't give you, the kind people use to toss shotputs or clean-and-jerk weights.

Ditto.

Here is my advice. Anytime you carry a weapon, you are subject to the attitude. You will find an excuse to use it. It may seem like the thing to do at the time, but in reality, it is a bad idea. I'm 48, and I've been around the block a time or two. I know that pride requires that you stand up to whomever is giving you grief, but understand that the graveyard is full of proud people.

Avoid the situation. Let someone else be Billy Badass. If you have to fight, use everything and anything to win. If you arent trying to cut the other persons heart out and stomp on it (literally), you shouldn't be fighting. Guns, knives, batons, sticks and other items are usually displayed to threaten or posture. That is not their purpose. When you deploy a weapon, you are not making a statement. You are fighting for your life.

That is an interesting comment and I certainly respect that you have found an approach that works for you or that you feel you can recommend to others. Having attended several firearms training schools over the years, and having carried for 25 years now, I can attest that most reputable schools and instructors teach you to turn the other cheek and walk away from situations when you can safely do so. The reason for this is that having to use deadly force is such a serious issue that it should be avoided at all costs unless you are acting to preserve your life or the life of another. Far better to swallow your pride and ignore the catcalls of idiots than to lose your cool and in the blink of an eye, irrevocably change your life and the life of your victim, to the detriment of both of you. It is my personal belief that if an individual cannot do this, you should not carry a weapon of any kind insofar as you do not have the judgment to use it in an ethical and legal manner.

I also very much agree with the above poster's second paragraph.

to OP, don't become part of the problem. You don't need a weapon to be safe in Portland and you aren't any safer with one. Don't buy into fear.

The mind is the weapon, all else is accessories. (John Steinbeck said or wrote something like that; I am not quoting him exactly.) Train the mind first. One thing to beware of in UFF/MMA/BJJ training is that training to fight one's opponent in a ring will not prepare one to deal with multiple opponents on the street, so it is necessary to find instruction with the correct orientation. I would rather stay on my feet during a scuffle and find an opportunity to escape, than grapple on the pavement, but do train for being knocked to the ground, as it may happen. As for collapsible batons, unless the model in question is the EXACT SAME model as used by major police agencies, it is probably junk. I carry an ASP, one of the good, real ones, and I see it as a poor substitute for the 26-inch hardwood baton, which I also use. (Both legal due to my peace officer status in Texas, but instantly illegal the moment I retire. I will still be able to carry a handgun after retirement, but not a club. Your state/local laws may vary.) OC spray can be effective; buy the EXACT SAME STUFF used by police, in the small size, not the discount-store trash. Replace it once a year. It goes where the wind blows, so THINK before using it. It does splash and mist when it hits, so anything nearby, including the defender, will get a dose, especially if downwind. My recommendation? A small, sturdy, powerful flashlight should be part of everyone's kit when out and about, even in daylight. Ever been inside a modern building when the power failed? I have, and was suddenly the most popular guy in the room both times. My favorites are the Surefire M2 Centurion and M3 Millenium; sturdy, a little longer than the span of my palm, legal virtually everywhere, even when carried on an airplane. In a dark alley, a quick burst of 100 to 125+ lumens of light in the eyes will change the visual orientation of anyone, with no lasting injury. This is getting long; enough for now.

I thought I should mention the 150 pound bull dog I fended off with my ASP. The sob charged me for no reason at all while I was riding the other day, and without thinking about it, I pulled my trusty 26 incher and hit the thing. It was like when you realise you are about to rear end a fuel tanker truck, you don't think, you just hit the breaks. In my case, I didn't have time to think either, I just gave the dog a good blow to the head and it ran off.

As I have said before, you don't want to hit anything or anybody in the head with an ASP, it could kill them. I was taken by surprise and didn't have time to think. It was coming right at me, the head shot was the easiest route, and insinctively I took it. Luckily this dog had a thick head and I didn't break its skull in. After it hapened I became upset with myself that I hit the thing in the head. Especially with my years of martial arts and fencing practice, I would have expected better of myself. A common and accurate saying in the martial arts and gun community is that in times of crisis, you don't rise to your expectations, you fall to your level of training. This is why I have decided to seek formal ASP training.

I was riding in a very safe neighborhood when the attack occured, and this is a good lesson for those of you who think planning alone will keep you safe.

Rex, the OP is in luck, living as he does in the city that hosts the Straight Blast Gym, which is probably the most well-rounded program anywhere, including stick training with live sparring with rattan: too hardcore for me! But again, one picks and chooses...as a judoka I'd like to think it's my opponent, not me, who will end up on the ground with all that entails, including a chance to get back on the bike and use the adrenaline to MOVE.

The most important thing is that the training be alive, that it be done at close to full speed and strength with unscripted reaction on a regular basis. This is the way boxing, wrestling, bjj, muay thai, judo and a few others work, it is the way MMA works; it is not how the majority of martial arts work, including almost all 'survival training' or 'reality-based martial arts'. If you have not studied your art under adrenaline-filled, semi-random situations where you apply at correct speed and power, you will not be able to do so under the even more stressful and random circumstances of everyday life.

As long as you are on the bike and keep your eyes open you have an advantage. If you get a puncture in a bad neighbourhood you are really exposed. Invest in the best kevlar protected tyres you can and practice quick repairs.
A shackle U lock is as good as anything else for defending yourself and it has the added advantage that you have to carry one and it is completely legal. You need quick access but anything you carry in your back pocket, you have to land on in a fall. I keep mine under a bunjie chord, on top of the rear rack, It gives me secure but instant acess for lockups as well as other contingencies.
I have used my whole bike as a defensive shield. Pick it up and hold it at chest level. If you hold it low, attackers will kick your gears but up high they just dont know what to do.

I think people may be overthinking the self defense part. This isn't the movies. If a bunch of guys jump you or someone shoves a broom handle in your spokes, there isn't much you can do about it. Unless they are absolutely stupid, they will be on top of you before you have much of a chance. I would suggest thinking of defensive riding skills rather than self defense.

Avoiding situations you find dangerous seems the best stratagy. When in areas I find less than safe, I just try to stay moving and aware of my surroundings. The danger point seems to be when you are stopped. Try to time the lights and keep your pace. You can outrun most anyone on foot. Keep your bike in good repair, as well. A mechanical failure can have you stuck for at least several minutes.

Barba, this thread isn't about whether or not weapons are appropriate for use, because clearly some of us think they are. Sense you seem to think that safe places are the key, please tell me, where would be safer to ride than Gross Point? (Gross Point is one of the richest places in the US, and is also where the bull dog came out of nowhere and charged me.) Also, using your wisdom, please tell me what you would have done if you were riding in a very good neighborhood and a huge dog you couldn't possibly outrun came out of nowhere and charged you.

I must also ask what situations or training you have been involved in that lead you to believe that attackers will render you incapable of fighting back before you can draw a weapon. I'm not saying its impossible, but its never happened to me or anyone I've so much as heard of, and its hard for me to imagine such a scenario, short of 5 guys ambushing one bike rider with baseball bats, and the thing about that is, it aint gonna happen.

Once again: planning to deploy a weapon without training in both the weapon's use and general hand-to-hand combat skill is foolishness.

I can imagine a couple scenarios that I'd like to inject, one unlikely the other more likely. The first is a 'bikejacking', where someone drags you off your bike from an angle and takes off on it after hitting you a couple times. If crack or meth is a problem in your area this could happen. I doubt it's common, however.

What is, unfortunately common is this: a single male driver, DUI or not, gets in a traffic accident or argument with a cyclist, gets out, and physically attacks. These are two scenarios involving a single attacker on a lone cyclist; one could imagine a (few) more.

A physical assault is two phases: before the assault, and after. Various things are useful before the assault, situational awareness is number one, looking like you aren't bait is number two. Once someone has decided to assault you, and you've failed to detect it, barba's advice breaks down, and you either wing it without knowledge, submit to whatever outrage to your person and property is planned, or revert to your training.

Most people are better off learning to play a musical instrument, cook, make love better...some of us spend awhile learning how to whup people, for our own complicated reasons, one of which is to defend ourselves and/or our loved ones from that sketchy situation that will probably never arrive. All I'm saying is: don't waste your time learning some ineffective form of self defense, and please don't carry a weapon if you don't know how to use it, which includes how to fight barehanded. That's the surest way to turn a mugging into a stabbing, or a vicious beating with your own ASP.

+1 and Amen!

On a related note, if the enemy is someone in particular, varying one's route and schedule makes planning an ambush much more complex. Most thugs will seek an easy target; being lazy, they want the low-hanging fruit.

A lighter and a can of hairspray will work just fine against multiple opponents.
After backing them off with the flame, just turn around and spin that metal.
Besides, if they're the hardcore criminals they think they are, they'll be less interested in you and more worried about their meth sales.
And from all the vehicles I've encountered, they usually just speed off like the little girls they are.

A loud KABOOM followed by a few months in the burn ward is not on my agenda.

Good timing, I was riding today and passed some shady characters and started thinking "I wonder if one of my guns would fit in my under the saddle bag" Its kinda remote and secluded so a robbery attempt or just plain assault for the purpose of thuggish jackassry is not out of the question. Maybe in the jersey pocket?

I own guns but would never carry them on a bike. I bought a telescoping baton for the bike. Turns out I've never needed it and it's useless weight. In time I learned the best defense was avoiding notoriously dangerous areas and people that insist on becoming your problem. Go somewhere that they aren't.