General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Clipless Pedals - Technique

Old 03-17-03, 07:09 AM
  #1  
lsd87
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hudson Valley
Posts: 111

Bikes: Sequoia

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Clipless Pedals - Technique

I've had my clipless pedals for about a week now and have fallen about three times. I can't seem to get my feet out quick enough when I stop, or I release as I'm slowing down, and the shoes attach again. So I've been unclipping both pedals (when I unclipped one, I fell the other way) and moving my feet further up so as to avoid them clipping in again.

I'd be interested in thoughts regarding technique. I imagine the process will become automatic with time, I just feel like a jerk when I fall in view of others. At first I thought it was funny, now I'm not so sure.
lsd87 is offline  
Old 03-17-03, 07:17 AM
  #2  
KennethToronto
Go Go Fassa
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
lol

Everyone goes through the dorky clipless falling process

Are you riding a road or mtb? On the road, you should only unclip one of your shoes and the leave the other one clipped in...which one you unclip is up to personal preference. I always unclip my right foot and leave my left one clipped in. Make sure to upclip well before the stop...that always helps. Focus on the fact that your foot is unclipped....while you slowly apply the brakes....then when you've almost stopped, just lean over to the side that is unclipped...voila

Of course....you can keep on falling a couple more times...you'll eventually get it
KennethToronto is offline  
Old 03-17-03, 07:35 AM
  #3  
Mockpo
Its happy hour somewhere,
 
Mockpo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Chicago 'burbs
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've been helping my GF with the same thing and she's still in fear of her first tumble. At least you're past that point.
I've got into the habit of uncliping when applying the brakes but it sounds like you might want to have them looked at or adjusted. Not sure about all but the ones I have can be set to click out easier...

Best piece of advise I recieved was to NOT put your hand out as you fall as you could break your wrist. Funny how fast the mind works, one of my first "locked in" falls I instinctively put out the hand to cusion the fall but pulled it in real quick upon the flash of a possible wrist fracture.

You'll get it.
Mockpo is offline  
Old 03-17-03, 07:53 AM
  #4  
Prosody
Are we having fun yet?
 
Prosody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 930

Bikes: Fuji Roubaix, Trek 7200

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Try keeping your foot off the pedal after you unclip. This will prevent you accidently clipping back in.
__________________
You're east of East St. Louis
And the wind is making speeches.
Prosody is offline  
Old 03-17-03, 09:42 AM
  #5  
Styk33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fair Oaks, CA USA
Posts: 205

Bikes: 96' DeRose SLX, '04 Cervelo P2K, ~'80 Schwin converted to fixie, '04 Jamis Nova

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I will usually unclip and just put the center of my foot on the pedal. Once you get used to the pedals you should be able to get out before you fall over.
__________________
Reverend Dr. Jay
MySpace
Styk33 is offline  
Old 03-17-03, 10:01 AM
  #6  
RonH
Life is good
 
RonH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Not far from the Withlacoochee Trail. 🚴🏻
Posts: 18,213

Bikes: 2001 Litespeed Tuscany, 2018 Lynskey Helix Pro

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It takes time and practice to get the technique perfected.

If I am approaching a stop I will unclip as I am slowing down and take my foot off the pedal. I also raise up off the saddle so I can straddle the top tube when I stop and put my foot on the ground.

In an emergency I instinctively turn my heel outward and put my foot out beside the pedal so I'm as ready as I can be for the stop.

Practice, practice, practice.
RonH is offline  
Old 03-17-03, 11:35 AM
  #7  
shokhead
05 Roubaix Comp Double
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: So Cal
Posts: 4,665

Bikes: 2012 Trek Madone 6.2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I never fell but started out with them adjusted very loose to get into and out and slowly adjusted to where i wanted them.I read to start out in the park so you fall onto grass.
shokhead is offline  
Old 03-17-03, 11:11 PM
  #8  
TriDevil
Spinmeister
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tempe,AZ
Posts: 623

Bikes: Scattante Carbon, Full Ultegra

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I just started using clipless shimano SPD-R's. I just sat on the bike, perched against a wall and practiced for a while till I at least knew the mechanics. I had the tension the lowest it would go. This helped in the beginning, since then Ive tightened them a little. Normally when Im unclipping its to stop at a light so I slow down, not too much, unclip the foot on the side that there is a curb and just let it dangle till I can reach the curb and stop. Takes getting used too, I had my first fall last week, still got the mark to prove it! Hope things work out soon.
TriDevil is offline  
Old 03-18-03, 12:35 PM
  #9  
ChezJfrey
Rider in the Storm
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 736

Bikes: LeMond Zurich, KHS Fiero (Fixed), Centurion Ironman Expert

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Oh yeah, I'll second the "dorky clipless falling phase." As you can see, most of us have gone through it. It's very humbling (if not embarassing) to fall when out in public, but you will get better with each ride.

Even though I occasionally alternate the foot (I prefer the left out for some reason, but if there's a curb I'll unclip the right), it's second nature to unclip and lean correctly now. But I will admit that I sometimes still miss clickin' a foot back in when I proceed from a stop. I have to readjust myself and retry - I hate that.
ChezJfrey is offline  
Old 03-18-03, 07:38 PM
  #10  
shokhead
05 Roubaix Comp Double
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: So Cal
Posts: 4,665

Bikes: 2012 Trek Madone 6.2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
TriDevil,what kind of pedals did you get?
shokhead is offline  
Old 03-18-03, 08:11 PM
  #11  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 19,332

Bikes: 1959 & 1960 Capo; 1982 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 680 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Good advice regarding avoidance of wrist fractures. I suffered a Colles' fracture of the right radius (not my dominant hand, and I have a superb orthopedist, but bad news anyway!) several years ago and would not wish it on anyone.

Does anyone in this forum own and ride bikes with clips ("strap-ins") and bikes with snap-in clipless retainers? Is it difficult or confusing to switch back and forth? I keep thinking I should perhaps go clipless with the Bianchi, but I like being able to wear walkable or street shoes with my commuting and mountain bikes.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324
Capo: 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 03-19-03, 04:53 AM
  #12  
nathank
cycle-powered
 
nathank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Munich Germany (formerly Portland OR, Texas)
Posts: 1,848

Bikes: '02 Specialized FSR, '03 RM Slayer, '99 Raleigh R700, '97 Norco hartail, '89 Stumpjumper

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Does anyone in this forum own and ride bikes with clips ("strap-ins") and bikes with snap-in clipless retainers? Is it difficult or confusing to switch back and forth? I keep thinking I should perhaps go clipless with the Bianchi, but I like being able to wear walkable or street shoes with my commuting and mountain bikes.
John,
your first question: i have 4 bikes and on 3 i have clipless pedals (Speedplay Frogs) and the 4th i have old clips/straps. it is an '89 MTB (Stumpjumper) and my "junker" bike that i ride in the city maybe 4 times a month when i either want to wear street clothes or park somewhere where i don't want to leave my other bikes...

about 5 years ago when i switched to clipless for my racing and recreational riding i had maybe a little extra difficulty getting used to "twisting" rather than "pulling back" to exit the pedal, but i learned it without much problem. (just tell yourself over and over in the head "twist" and practice so in the "emergency" you twist)

i then rode about 4 years commuting daily w/ clips/straps and doing recreational riding w/ clipless and i had little problems switching and can in seconds switch from clipless to clips w/ straps.

as to being able to wear street shoes with clipless pedals, there are 2 options:
1) 1-sided pedals with clips on one side and regular platforms on the other. i have never used them, but many of my friends use them on their commuters and are satisfied. obviously you can't double-sided click-in and sometimes have to flip the pedal, so not ideal for racing, but commuting OK --- i have seen these usually pretty cheap as they are usually not "superlight" and targeted more for commuters ($30 to $50?)
2) they make these clip-in platforms that you can buy as accessories and clip into the clipless pedal to provide a platform pedal for use with regular shoes. advantage is that when they're off they are only clipless pedals with no extra weight or change. i would buy these except i use a special type of pedal Speedplay Frogs and as far as i know they don't make any --- i guess i have old cleats and i could make some myself, but i have been too lazy.
nathank is offline  
Old 03-19-03, 05:02 AM
  #13  
nathank
cycle-powered
 
nathank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Munich Germany (formerly Portland OR, Texas)
Posts: 1,848

Bikes: '02 Specialized FSR, '03 RM Slayer, '99 Raleigh R700, '97 Norco hartail, '89 Stumpjumper

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
oh John, additional comment since you said you have MTB and road bikes:

i personally use MTB (or ATB) shoes and pedals for both road and mountain. the advantages are:
1) don't need separate shoes for each (i have one pair of winter shoes and 1 pr summer shoes that i use for both road and off road)
2) MTB shoes/SPD clipless pedals are easier to walk in as the cleat is recessed. the Road shoe/pedals are a pain to walk in so in my opinion not ideal for commuting - they also look funny.

i personally would only recommend road shoes if a) you do almost only on-road recreational riding and racing (very little MTB or commuting or touring), and b) don't walk much with the bike shoes --- basically the only advantage of road shoes/pedals is that they are a little lighter, a little stiffer (although you can buy the expensive race MTB shoes that are pretty much as stiff and nearly as light for $$$) and have a little more pedal-to-ground clearance than MTB pedals/shoes but unless you're SERIOUSLY racing you won't know the difference.

i.e. i would recommend mid-level MTB shoes that look "normal" while still being somewhat stiff for decent performance, and at a decent price (less than $100 for shoes, less than $100 for pedals). i personally love my Speedplay Frogs, but they're expensive (over $100) and i'd start with normal Shimano-type SPD pedals (i also did and then decided to switch after a year)
nathank is offline  
Old 03-20-03, 05:23 PM
  #14  
TriDevil
Spinmeister
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tempe,AZ
Posts: 623

Bikes: Scattante Carbon, Full Ultegra

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think they are wellgo R4. Not exactly sure. They use SPD-R cleats though. I guess those arent going to be around much longer, nobody liked them. I'll probably wear these cleats out and then switch to some Look pedals. Hope you arent falling as much!
TriDevil is offline  
Old 03-21-03, 04:21 AM
  #15  
nferyn
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gistel, Belgium
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm really suprised that so many people have problems with clipless pedals.
My old roadbike has got the original look pedals and my new one Campy Chorus pro fit pedals. Never had any problems with them. Just think that you need to twist to unclip and unclipping will come very natural. Before that I had the traditional toe clips and that's a completely different story. I would even consider them dangerous in ordianry traffic: you can't even unclip quickly in emergency situations.

Re-engaging the pedals on the other hand takes some practice and it can take some time to become proficient in this technique, but if you don't enter races with a fast start, that shouldn't be a problem either.
I've never used any SPD or similar system, so I dont know how easy these are to unclip from

Just think 'twist' instead of 'pull' and it will all come very quickly

Niek
nferyn is offline  
Old 03-21-03, 04:54 AM
  #16  
MichaelW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: England
Posts: 12,952
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by nferyn
Before that I had the traditional toe clips and that's a completely different story. I would even consider them dangerous in ordianry traffic: you can't even unclip quickly in emergency situations.
No-one rides in traffic with the straps cinched tight, do they !! And those pedal-gripping cleats were strictly for racing.

With my lose straps, I can remove my feet instantaneously, even during a fall. Ive removed my feet during a fall on ice, and riding off-road when I slid down a deep 4x4 tyre rut. Can you get your feet out of clipless pedals in the moment between losing control of your bike and hitting the ground?
MichaelW is offline  
Old 03-21-03, 06:51 AM
  #17  
Psykik
LBAPD Bike Patrol
 
Psykik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Beach, NY
Posts: 117

Bikes: '03 Specialized Sequoia Expert/Specialized Crossroad/Schwinn 3sp. Stingray

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I am expecting my new Crank Bros. Egg Beaters to arrive today and will put them on my shiny new Specialized Sequoia Expert. Would hate to fall, but especially on my new bike.

I have that "newbie unrest" of being attached to my bike.

Maybe I should-

a) Take the cages off of my old bike, put on the Egg Beaters and practice on that.

or

b) Put them on my new bike (which has a different geometry and set-up to get used to as well) and practice on my trainer.

I understand that there is a learning curve, but I would love to avoid a broken wrist or a shiny new broken bike!

Rob
__________________
'03 Specialized Sequoia Expert
'93 Specialized CrossRoads

IPMBA certified Police Bicycle Patrol Officer
Long Beach Auxiliary Police Department
http://www.lbapd.com
Psykik is offline  
Old 03-21-03, 07:03 AM
  #18  
nathank
cycle-powered
 
nathank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Munich Germany (formerly Portland OR, Texas)
Posts: 1,848

Bikes: '02 Specialized FSR, '03 RM Slayer, '99 Raleigh R700, '97 Norco hartail, '89 Stumpjumper

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
With my lose straps, I can remove my feet instantaneously, even during a fall. Ive removed my feet during a fall on ice, and riding off-road when I slid down a deep 4x4 tyre rut. Can you get your feet out of clipless pedals in the moment between losing control of your bike and hitting the ground?
i have spent lots of time riding with both "clips and straps" and clipless pedals and never had a problem with either.

i can unclip more quickly from my clipless pedals than i can get my feet out of clips/straps.

as far as clipless pedals and an emergency/fall: yes, MOST of the time i can unclip if i anticipate a fall, but there are those occasions where your are suddenly on the ground - i these cases my pedals have always unclipped themselves (most of my experience here is with Speedplay Frogs although i had traditional Ritchey Shimano-type SPDs for 1 yr) either by the force alone or the pedal cleats twisted in the shoe and unclipped. in other words i have never had a fall where i either a) was not able to unclip myself or b) did not come unclipped in the course of the fall, so i have never had a major fall and stayed clipped into the pedals. i suppose it's possible with some of the pedals to set them up SO tight that they wouldn't release, but there is no need to set them so tight.
nathank is offline  
Old 03-25-03, 12:43 PM
  #19  
shokhead
05 Roubaix Comp Double
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: So Cal
Posts: 4,665

Bikes: 2012 Trek Madone 6.2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I just got my Shimano R535's and they are very easy to get in and out.
shokhead is offline  
Old 03-25-03, 06:26 PM
  #20  
Brennan
Senior Member
 
Brennan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 669

Bikes: Surly X√, Trek Earl

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a pair of Shimano PD-M646 pedals on my XC bike. They have a nice wide platform surrounding the clip-in part, so they feel very stable under my feet and give me more confidence. Also, if you don't clip in right away, you can just pedal as you would on platforms until the shoe snaps in (usually very easy). The downside is they are heavy. But my first pair of clipless were standard-sized and I never fell when I started using them. It came pretty naturally to me. Then it finally happened a few weeks ago, I was just being careless and fell over. This after using clipless for 4 years.
Brennan is offline  
Old 04-01-03, 11:56 AM
  #21  
Psykik
LBAPD Bike Patrol
 
Psykik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Beach, NY
Posts: 117

Bikes: '03 Specialized Sequoia Expert/Specialized Crossroad/Schwinn 3sp. Stingray

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Any additional advice for a first-timer clipless pedal user?

On my hybrid bike I used cages. The shiny new road bike will be outfitted with egg beaters. The new bike also has a different geometry and component layout than the bike it is replacing...Another thing to get used to.

What do you advise?

My considerations:

Put the clipless pedals on my old bike to get used to them.
-and-
Ride my new bike with the included shimano SPDs with the shoe adapter attached to get used to the bike.

Start fresh with the new bike and clipless pedals on the stationary trainer where I can shift, clip in/out without actually going anywhere (including down!)

Or, slip everything on the new bike and play in traffic?

:confused:
__________________
'03 Specialized Sequoia Expert
'93 Specialized CrossRoads

IPMBA certified Police Bicycle Patrol Officer
Long Beach Auxiliary Police Department
http://www.lbapd.com
Psykik is offline  
Old 04-02-03, 09:33 AM
  #22  
greywolf
aka old dog
 
greywolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: tauranga New Zealand
Posts: 1,173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I still use clips & straps mainly ,cos Im too cheap to buy the pedals .Though I do use a pair of Shimano mtb stp shoes( still a cheap skate nz$30 off Trademe) with rather aggressive self made cleats , I just reach down & loosen the strap when required ,it becomes 2nd nature, but I can usualy pull out in a hurry if I have to, execpt last week I was draughting a truck, just for the hell of it & I tightend the straps extra tight , when I eventualy lost the battle to keep up with the truck, he shot through the lights on a yellow & left me with a red & the opposing traffic already starting to move ,I knew I could stop ok putting all my weight on the back & braking hard on the front , very impressive till I came to put my foot down, my foot wouldnt come out , you know the rest thats life I ,spose!!
greywolf is offline  
Old 04-02-03, 12:56 PM
  #23  
speir2
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Jackson GA
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I find that it is best to unclip 1 foot just a bit before stopping, but you do not have to stop on a dime, sometimes if not unclipped I may move forward another foot or two to get unclipped, I cannot remember being in a situation where could not stay balanced another foot or two to become unclipped, but I can come up to a stop sign stop still a few seconds before beginning to fall over. One just needs to concenstrate on what he is doing not to fall.
speir2 is offline  
Old 04-02-03, 08:26 PM
  #24  
twowheeler
Senior Member
 
twowheeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Salina, Kansas
Posts: 49

Bikes: 03 Cannondale R800 Sport

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just got my new bike this weekend, the first time for clipless pedals. It hasnt been as bad as I anticipated. The guy at the bike shop put the bike up on the trainer, explained how they worked and just let me practice. I still get a little nervous in traffic, getting used to the new bike along the different pedals ....... Well I wished I would have went to clipless on the old bike, before getting the new bike, I am more afraid of scratching up the bike than anything.
__________________
Kathy
twowheeler is offline  
Old 04-03-03, 06:52 AM
  #25  
chewa
The Flying Scot
 
chewa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North Queensferry Scotland and London (and France)
Posts: 1,904

Bikes: Custom (Colin Laing) 531c fast tourer/audax, 1964 Flying Scot Continental, 1995 Cinelli Supercorsa, Holdsworth Mistral single speed, Dahon Speed 6 (folder), Micmo Sirocco and a few more

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I had trouble unclipping at first but then a friend noticed I was pulling up as I unclipped which led to the pedal not releasing.

I just twist and my foot comes out the side.

Check your tension too.
__________________
plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens

1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
chewa is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.