wanna be a bike messenger
#1
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wanna be a bike messenger
Hello from spain.I would like to know something and maybe some of you can help me.
Here in Europe bicycle messengering is not very usual.I know there are bm companies in London
and maybe in some other big cities.But fast delivery is more for motrcycles.
My question is:are there bike messengers only in big towns in the USA?
Becuse im thinking about opening my own messengers company but here where i live we are
about 500.000 people.And Im afraid it is not a good busyness.
thanks
Here in Europe bicycle messengering is not very usual.I know there are bm companies in London
and maybe in some other big cities.But fast delivery is more for motrcycles.
My question is:are there bike messengers only in big towns in the USA?
Becuse im thinking about opening my own messengers company but here where i live we are
about 500.000 people.And Im afraid it is not a good busyness.
thanks
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At least in the Western U.S., where I live, bicycle messengers are pretty much a thing of the past. There are still a few, but instant communications by cell phone, fax and computer have just about killed the business. I live in Reno, Nev., a city of about 150,000, and I don't believe we have ANY messengers left.
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Hello from spain.I would like to know something and maybe some of you can help me.
Here in Europe bicycle messengering is not very usual.I know there are bm companies in London
and maybe in some other big cities.But fast delivery is more for motrcycles.
My question is:are there bike messengers only in big towns in the USA?
Becuse im thinking about opening my own messengers company but here where i live we are
about 500.000 people.And Im afraid it is not a good busyness.
thanks
Here in Europe bicycle messengering is not very usual.I know there are bm companies in London
and maybe in some other big cities.But fast delivery is more for motrcycles.
My question is:are there bike messengers only in big towns in the USA?
Becuse im thinking about opening my own messengers company but here where i live we are
about 500.000 people.And Im afraid it is not a good busyness.
thanks
https://www.messengers.org/contacts/#es
Certainly don't take the advice of westerners, many believe the industry is dead despite there still being 12,000 working messengers in North America alone. The estimations of our industries demise are usually based on casual observations without a baseline, or media articles with as much research, sometimes less, than as the casual observer.
There are not many messengers in Spain working on bicycles, many work on scooters, it's the same in Italy and a few other European nations. However that does not mean there is not a market, looking beyond document delivery is usually key. Business & governments are also looking keenly for ways to go "green" and are finding that our services are more extensive than they had previously believed, leading to a small increase in volume as of late.
Good Luck!
Last edited by SamHouston; 09-10-07 at 09:40 AM.
#4
Two H's!!! TWO!!!!!
My feeling is that North American cities have bike messengers in the downtown core because scooters really just aren't something common or popular here... certainly not on the European scale.
If you were to open such a business, what advantages would you offer? A scooter or smaller motorcycle doesn't cost a lot of money to run or maintain and it's almost (not quite, but almost) as manouverable even in the most congested downtown traffic. And in general it's more powerful and able to go faster. So what edge will you have with bike couriers instead of motorcycle couriers? Greater range? Not by far - bike couriering is not practicable over distance over, say 15 km max... most messengers here rarely carry a parcel further than 7 km. Faster downtown delivery times? Doubt it, though you of course know your city better. It's possible that you could specialize in lightning-speed delivery within a small dense business area. Lower prices because bicycles don't need fuel or cost nearly as much as motorcycles? Perhaps, but will that even be a noticeable price decrease? Providing a greener alternative? Yep, that's your only advantage. So:
IF:
you city has a fairly concentrated business district with lots of mail circulating there
AND
you can offer prices at least as low and delivery times at least as fast as those offered by motorcycle companies
AND
there is at least some interest in "going green" in your part of the world
AND
especially if you can offer some unique services to serve an existing need that current companies don't address or address poorly
THEN:
you may have success.
OTHERWISE:
I doubt it.
If you were to open such a business, what advantages would you offer? A scooter or smaller motorcycle doesn't cost a lot of money to run or maintain and it's almost (not quite, but almost) as manouverable even in the most congested downtown traffic. And in general it's more powerful and able to go faster. So what edge will you have with bike couriers instead of motorcycle couriers? Greater range? Not by far - bike couriering is not practicable over distance over, say 15 km max... most messengers here rarely carry a parcel further than 7 km. Faster downtown delivery times? Doubt it, though you of course know your city better. It's possible that you could specialize in lightning-speed delivery within a small dense business area. Lower prices because bicycles don't need fuel or cost nearly as much as motorcycles? Perhaps, but will that even be a noticeable price decrease? Providing a greener alternative? Yep, that's your only advantage. So:
IF:
you city has a fairly concentrated business district with lots of mail circulating there
AND
you can offer prices at least as low and delivery times at least as fast as those offered by motorcycle companies
AND
there is at least some interest in "going green" in your part of the world
AND
especially if you can offer some unique services to serve an existing need that current companies don't address or address poorly
THEN:
you may have success.
OTHERWISE:
I doubt it.
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ok thanks everybody specially to the midwest cow and his 6 year old son
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Actually cephy bicycle messengers are in greater use per capita for more European cities than North American.
Some of the advantages of bicycles over scooters;
Bicycles don't pollute
Bicycles are faster & more maneuverable in NA traffic than scooters, if the rider chooses & has ability. There is no reason this can't be the case in Euro cities, and it often is. Probably why they (the Euros) win more of our races.
Bicycles park much faster than scooters, are free to park and do not require a parking space.
Bicycles cannot run out of fuel
Bicycles do not require a valid drivers license or vehicle registration
Bicycles go through ice & snow with very little modification, scooters have issues, only the best ride them in ice & snow.
Bicycles cost far less
Bicycles do not add to congestion, and service bicycles reduce congestion
Bicycles can be maintained and repaired for less & in less time & anywhere at all if no part is needed.
Lower top speed is an advantage to safety more often than it is not.
Bicycles can cover as great a distance as scooters, witness Beijing, with all of it's municipality able to access bicycle delivery services.
Bicycles can collect or drop to multiple destinations in close proximity much much faster than scooters, for a combination of the above reasons. Scooter pickup time is more comparable to the car, sometimes 10+ minutes once the address is reached.
//
Scooters have ranges usually equal to bicycles where both are used. Less density, as you move outward from the core, usually means infrastructure developed more exclusively for the car & truck & at higher speeds than in higher density areas. Lower density means collecting and dropping packages over an exponentially wider area making small parcel delivery much more expensive and yet still not enough to sustain a fleet, whether bicycle or scooter, or even car.
In North America the main reason many cities restrict messengers to core areas because there is a perception especially in the south that bicycles cannot travel a distance not measured in blocks. The next reason if not it's equal is sprawl. Where larger cities and older cities are densely developed over a wider area, a city such as Houston has only pockets of high density spread over a wide area and serviced by freeways.
There are myriad reasons why bicycles are preferred over scooters, most to do with parking as I mentioned, but also to do with regulation. If scooters worked better "green" be damned there would be more scooters than bicycles, that's how it would be. But it isn't, and not because we haven't tried it, we have. Scooter delivery vehicles number about 1 for every 40+ bicycle deliver vehicles here in TO.
The greatest reason that some cities in Italy, Spain, Brazil, Chile, & others is simple, ask them and they'll tell you. It's machismo, the perception that your manhood is dependent on how stupidly fast and loud you can be. Not dissimilar from the North American perception of vehicles as status symbols, objects by which you are judged financially & socially. There is a lot of that everywhere though.
(South American cities have good sized bicycle fleets, sometimes equal to scooter & motorcycle delivery, most often not)
Some of the advantages of bicycles over scooters;
Bicycles don't pollute
Bicycles are faster & more maneuverable in NA traffic than scooters, if the rider chooses & has ability. There is no reason this can't be the case in Euro cities, and it often is. Probably why they (the Euros) win more of our races.
Bicycles park much faster than scooters, are free to park and do not require a parking space.
Bicycles cannot run out of fuel
Bicycles do not require a valid drivers license or vehicle registration
Bicycles go through ice & snow with very little modification, scooters have issues, only the best ride them in ice & snow.
Bicycles cost far less
Bicycles do not add to congestion, and service bicycles reduce congestion
Bicycles can be maintained and repaired for less & in less time & anywhere at all if no part is needed.
Lower top speed is an advantage to safety more often than it is not.
Bicycles can cover as great a distance as scooters, witness Beijing, with all of it's municipality able to access bicycle delivery services.
Bicycles can collect or drop to multiple destinations in close proximity much much faster than scooters, for a combination of the above reasons. Scooter pickup time is more comparable to the car, sometimes 10+ minutes once the address is reached.
//
Scooters have ranges usually equal to bicycles where both are used. Less density, as you move outward from the core, usually means infrastructure developed more exclusively for the car & truck & at higher speeds than in higher density areas. Lower density means collecting and dropping packages over an exponentially wider area making small parcel delivery much more expensive and yet still not enough to sustain a fleet, whether bicycle or scooter, or even car.
In North America the main reason many cities restrict messengers to core areas because there is a perception especially in the south that bicycles cannot travel a distance not measured in blocks. The next reason if not it's equal is sprawl. Where larger cities and older cities are densely developed over a wider area, a city such as Houston has only pockets of high density spread over a wide area and serviced by freeways.
There are myriad reasons why bicycles are preferred over scooters, most to do with parking as I mentioned, but also to do with regulation. If scooters worked better "green" be damned there would be more scooters than bicycles, that's how it would be. But it isn't, and not because we haven't tried it, we have. Scooter delivery vehicles number about 1 for every 40+ bicycle deliver vehicles here in TO.
The greatest reason that some cities in Italy, Spain, Brazil, Chile, & others is simple, ask them and they'll tell you. It's machismo, the perception that your manhood is dependent on how stupidly fast and loud you can be. Not dissimilar from the North American perception of vehicles as status symbols, objects by which you are judged financially & socially. There is a lot of that everywhere though.
(South American cities have good sized bicycle fleets, sometimes equal to scooter & motorcycle delivery, most often not)
#8
Two H's!!! TWO!!!!!
Two h's in my nick They are both there in plain sight. I don't know why that's such a common error.
Ok. I know there certainly are bike messengers in Amsterdam. But apparently not in Spain, unless the OP hasn't researched things.
That's why the "green" aspect was mentioned in my post as well as another post above. However, I doubt that most customers will put up with a company that's slower and/or more expensive and/or has a more limited range just to feel a little bit better about easing congestion and not contributing to pollution. You have to offer some obvious and immediate benefits that your competitors don't offer; then the green aspect becomes a nice bonus.
Do scooters require a parking space? I see scooters around here parked on the sidewalk chained to poles etc. - just like bicycles. As far as I know it's legal too, though maybe I'm confusing it with some other place.
Their engine can though. It's called a bonk. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought a scooter doesn't require very frequent fill-ups due to being so fuel-efficient. And unlike the rider, it does not need lunch time.
In some places in NA bicycle messengers are required to be licensed (e.g. Victoria, BC... or was it Vancouver?).
Anyway, we are talking about business feasibility here. Why does your customer care whether the vehicle used to deliver his mail require registration or not? Is this reduction in cost significant enough to trickle down to the consumer and result in lower prices? I didn't think vehicle registration costed that much. I also thought some scooters didn't require a license or insurance... not sure about registration. I know this is the case in North America, but maybe not in Europe?
It's true, and I said so. Scooters are pretty close though if we're talking about simple manouverability. However, here something that didn't occur to me before: bicycles are faster because nobody really cares if cyclists follow the rules of the road or not. Messengers run red lights and ride on sidewalks all the time, with basically no one to stop them. But try that on a motorcycle, and you'll get busted pretty quickly. So I'm afraid the advantage here really is "cyclists can get away with a lot more".
Is that really much of a consideration for Spain if you're not in the mountains?
Agreed. And savings can be significant here.
Depends on the skill of the rider. Again, does it really matter to a company whether its mail gets delivered by safe train or by unsafe (by comparison) car, if they get there at the same time?
I know, bicycles can go around the world. They'll take longer doing that than scooters though.
Good; it must be working for them. High density no doubt contributes to the success of bike messenger companies there. I doubt that bicycle delivery folks in Beijing are sent on cross-town assignments though.
That's why I said that IF there is a small concentrated business area in the OP's town which is the business heart of the city, then a bicycle messenger company might work.
However, come to think of it, I don't know of too many companies that are exclusively bicycle. Even a firm that sends 90% of its mail to the next building will occasionally want something relayed further forward. Most companies I know of maintain a fleet of bikes, cars and trucks, and use whichever tool is best for any given delivery. Yes, there are exceptions, of course, but I feel they are indeed exceptions.
Cities don't restrict messengers. Messenger companies do. Because it makes financial sense. Even though in Toronto, for example, you could easily travel on ordinary streets (as opposed to freeways) to get just about anywhere. But no one's gonna send a bike messenger on a run 30 km away. Or even 15. 10 is about the upper limit as far as I know.
Well, but apparently it IS, where the OP lives anyhow.
Are you saying that businesses put machismo over profits? Doubt that. Or that it's important to business owners that their mail gets delivered by fast noisy vehicles? Well, then they won't use bicycle messenger companies, would they?
bicycle messengers are in greater use per capita for more European cities than North American.
Bicycles don't pollute
Bicycles do not add to congestion, and service bicycles reduce congestion
Bicycles do not add to congestion, and service bicycles reduce congestion
Bicycles park much faster than scooters, are free to park and do not require a parking space.
Bicycles cannot run out of fuel
Bicycles do not require a valid drivers license or vehicle registration
Anyway, we are talking about business feasibility here. Why does your customer care whether the vehicle used to deliver his mail require registration or not? Is this reduction in cost significant enough to trickle down to the consumer and result in lower prices? I didn't think vehicle registration costed that much. I also thought some scooters didn't require a license or insurance... not sure about registration. I know this is the case in North America, but maybe not in Europe?
Bicycles are faster & more maneuverable in NA traffic than scooters, if the rider chooses & has ability. There is no reason this can't be the case in Euro cities, and it often is. Probably why they (the Euros) win more of our races.
Bicycles go through ice & snow with very little modification, scooters have issues, only the best ride them in ice & snow.
Bicycles cost far less
Bicycles can be maintained and repaired for less & in less time & anywhere at all if no part is needed.
Bicycles can be maintained and repaired for less & in less time & anywhere at all if no part is needed.
Lower top speed is an advantage to safety more often than it is not.
Bicycles can cover as great a distance as scooters
witness Beijing, with all of it's municipality able to access bicycle delivery services.
Bicycles can collect or drop to multiple destinations in close proximity much much faster than scooters, for a combination of the above reasons.
However, come to think of it, I don't know of too many companies that are exclusively bicycle. Even a firm that sends 90% of its mail to the next building will occasionally want something relayed further forward. Most companies I know of maintain a fleet of bikes, cars and trucks, and use whichever tool is best for any given delivery. Yes, there are exceptions, of course, but I feel they are indeed exceptions.
In North America the main reason many cities restrict messengers to core areas because there is a perception especially in the south that bicycles cannot travel a distance not measured in blocks. The next reason if not it's equal is sprawl. Where larger cities and older cities are densely developed over a wider area, a city such as Houston has only pockets of high density spread over a wide area and serviced by freeways.
If scooters worked better "green" be damned there would be more scooters than bicycles, that's how it would be. But it isn't
The greatest reason that some cities in Italy, Spain, Brazil, Chile, & others is simple, ask them and they'll tell you. It's machismo, the perception that your manhood is dependent on how stupidly fast and loud you can be.
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You're in Reno too huh?
The only places I can think of off the top of my head that have Bike Messengers are New York City and San Francisco, and maybe Boston too, that is a guess.
The only places I can think of off the top of my head that have Bike Messengers are New York City and San Francisco, and maybe Boston too, that is a guess.
#10
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#11
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There are bike messengers in 11 Spanish municipalities. No European nation lacks bike messengers, but some have thousands were others have only hundreds.
That's why the "green" aspect was mentioned in my post as well as another post above. However, I doubt that most customers will put up with a company that's slower and/or more expensive and/or has a more limited range just to feel a little bit better about easing congestion and not contributing to pollution. You have to offer some obvious and immediate benefits that your competitors don't offer; then the green aspect becomes a nice bonus.
Oh and many companies will select the greener service based on that aspect alone these days, thankfully. I've sold an account or two that way.
Vancouver, Boston, and, after a fashion, Chicago. However no valid drivers license is required.
Anyway, we are talking about business feasibility here. Why does your customer care whether the vehicle used to deliver his mail require registration or not? Is this reduction in cost significant enough to trickle down to the consumer and result in lower prices? I didn't think vehicle registration costed that much. I also thought some scooters didn't require a license or insurance... not sure about registration. I know this is the case in North America, but maybe not in Europe?
It's true, and I said so. Scooters are pretty close though if we're talking about simple manouverability. However, here something that didn't occur to me before: bicycles are faster because nobody really cares if cyclists follow the rules of the road or not. Messengers run red lights and ride on sidewalks all the time, with basically no one to stop them. But try that on a motorcycle, and you'll get busted pretty quickly. So I'm afraid the advantage here really is "cyclists can get away with a lot more".
Bicycles are faster in Toronto because of the 5-10 minutes needed to park in Toronto, sometimes 1-2 blocks from your destination.The bicyclist parks 20 feet from the door, in about 10 seconds.
And we're in good shape here in Toronto, the messenger safety handbook published by the TOBMA, their local organization, lists 20 bike shops within the downtown delivery zone, and I can see at least 6 shops not mentioned.
I know, bicycles can go around the world. They'll take longer doing that than scooters though.
Good; it must be working for them. High density no doubt contributes to the success of bike messenger companies there. I doubt that bicycle delivery folks in Beijing are sent on cross-town assignments though.
Good; it must be working for them. High density no doubt contributes to the success of bike messenger companies there. I doubt that bicycle delivery folks in Beijing are sent on cross-town assignments though.
However, come to think of it, I don't know of too many companies that are exclusively bicycle. Even a firm that sends 90% of its mail to the next building will occasionally want something relayed further forward. Most companies I know of maintain a fleet of bikes, cars and trucks, and use whichever tool is best for any given delivery. Yes, there are exceptions, of course, but I feel they are indeed exceptions.
Cities don't restrict messengers. Messenger companies do. Because it makes financial sense. Even though in Toronto, for example, you could easily travel on ordinary streets (as opposed to freeways) to get just about anywhere. But no one's gonna send a bike messenger on a run 30 km away. Or even 15. 10 is about the upper limit as far as I know.
With "Cities" I refer to a general perception prevalent in an area. For instance in Houston, Texas there is a separation of 3 miles between Downtown and The Texas Medical Center, both heavily developed with many daily interactions. Only 1-2 messengers deliver between the 2 areas despite repeatedly demonstrating better response & delivery times. The issue is an overt tendency in that area to dismiss alternative transportation between such distances. As the individual does, so does the business owner, even some of the messengers. It doesn't seem feasible despite evidence to the contrary, so it remains unfeasible. There is now a light rail line connecting these areas, one can hope the delivery companies there haven't overlooked that development.
But you see what I mean, here in Toronto a 3 mile journey is a bicycle journey for tens of thousands living downtown & it's outskirts. In Houston a 3 mile journey is viewed as a car journey except by a few dozen hardy souls and about 50 bike messengers (the total of their number, compare that to Toronto which boasts 225-175 depending on the season, Houston has a population nearly double that of Toronto)
Well, but apparently it IS, where the OP lives anyhow.
Are you saying that businesses put machismo over profits? Doubt that. Or that it's important to business owners that their mail gets delivered by fast noisy vehicles? Well, then they won't use bicycle messenger companies, would they?
Are you saying that businesses put machismo over profits? Doubt that. Or that it's important to business owners that their mail gets delivered by fast noisy vehicles? Well, then they won't use bicycle messenger companies, would they?
There are many ways to make alternative transportation as industry larger, the first is dismissing the notion that it doesn't work. That notion is almost always born of casual observation, not actual study. Those who choose to explore the issue usually find that the industry has much to offer, much to the chagrin of autocentric development it's developers and it's dwellers who prefer to see only cars and trucks on the road.
In Toronto it's estimated that our alt.trans industry keeps 2500 car trips out of the area below Bloor Every Day! If you think that the deliveries wouldn't be done by car if there were no alternative think again using some of the points you made above. There are 225-175 messengers in the area below Bloor.
Now think of NYC, where 2000 bike messengers and a large number of foot messengers work on Manhattan Isle and the surrounding boroughs.
Now think of Beijing with it's numbers twice that of NYC.
Now remember when you see a messenger you see 6-10 cars in that space that aren't there. Do you use a local service? Even household accounts are available, I can recommend several including the one I hold an account with and use when I don't feel like going out.
Last edited by SamHouston; 09-11-07 at 08:40 AM.
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Their populations range in number from Anchorage, Alaska with 1 year round bike messenger, to NYC with it's 2000+ (there's always a few more in summer)
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Hello from spain.I would like to know something and maybe some of you can help me.
Here in Europe bicycle messengering is not very usual.I know there are bm companies in London
and maybe in some other big cities.But fast delivery is more for motrcycles.
My question is:are there bike messengers only in big towns in the USA?
Becuse im thinking about opening my own messengers company but here where i live we are
about 500.000 people.And Im afraid it is not a good busyness.
thanks
Here in Europe bicycle messengering is not very usual.I know there are bm companies in London
and maybe in some other big cities.But fast delivery is more for motrcycles.
My question is:are there bike messengers only in big towns in the USA?
Becuse im thinking about opening my own messengers company but here where i live we are
about 500.000 people.And Im afraid it is not a good busyness.
thanks
#14
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Ok. I know there certainly are bike messengers in Amsterdam. But apparently not in Spain, unless the OP hasn't researched things.
OP knows there are a few.Specially in big cities ,Barcelona Sevilla...,and that in smaller cities
maybe 3 or 4 you can find one company no more, but im not sure if they are serious business or
just a bunch of friends green/alternative oriented trying to change the world
Maybe the only way would be triying to get a job as bicycle messenger in a motorcycle messengers company and see what happens .
OP knows there are a few.Specially in big cities ,Barcelona Sevilla...,and that in smaller cities
maybe 3 or 4 you can find one company no more, but im not sure if they are serious business or
just a bunch of friends green/alternative oriented trying to change the world
Maybe the only way would be triying to get a job as bicycle messenger in a motorcycle messengers company and see what happens .