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Honestly, if you don't like them...don't use them and quit hatin'
Personally, I think there's a range of applications both for and against them. There are speeds and circumstances at which its impossible to argue their usefulness and <begin trollfood> there are speeds at which a skilled person on good platforms can do as well or better than a relatively unskilled clipless rider and insofar as that whole leg lifting thing, personally I feel more like I get better control over the forward/backward movement than the up and down, but either way, the higher the percentage of the stroke that both legs contribute power to the chain, the better. <end trollfood> But personally, my clydesdale's hooves ALWAYS slipped off of platforms every time I tried to ride them in any kind of serious cadence (read: 70+rpm in my lame case) and I definately lack the coordination to use clips and straps as well as my size 13's dont fit in most standard clips with the shoes I'm comfortable to wear. so I LOVE them, but ymmv. I will however hate on clipless SHOES, well I would have until I found out my favorite brand: Keen makes spd sandals. I just want an SPD work-boot with enough recess to give clearance for my cleats so I can ride to work, unclip and be out on the concrete floor without sounding like a horse |
Originally Posted by cyclezealot
(Post 7084678)
Not that one need be forced to use what they don't like . But, I can't believe they have been given enough time to work all the bugs out. I love them. Just pushing down , rather than the option of spinning. It makes my feet ache to think all the pressure is spent solely pushing down. Plus, I'd never, ever stand on pedals without the security of clipless. Never. Its like you are far more vunerable. And I hate having your shins knocked all the time by pedals. / Can't say , I have expereinced your complaint once you give them time and get truly acquainted with them.
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I've learned to love clipless for my road bike. I estimate a 20% power gain and immediate speed increase BUT I hate them on my MTB! I'm not quick enough to get out of a bad situation on the trails...........
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A bike's speed is controlled by your cadence. Your cadence will be identical with good BMX pedals or clipless...cadence is a function of heart, lungs and legs...your pedals are just along for the ride.
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Hey man, do whatever makes you happy. Just because the Jones' are riding clipless doesn't mean you have to run out and lay down some bucks for new pedals and shoes.
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Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
(Post 7088327)
[speed is a function of cadence and] cadence is a function of heart, lungs and legs...your pedals are just along for the ride.
but any biomed will tell you that your leg movement is a function of 2 muscles. one to contract and one to relax. we take the "relaxing" (or, iirc,the antagonist muscle) for granted, but where the 1st model describes a 2-cylinder system where inertia (or the pedal) carries the cylinder not performing work back to its top dead center postion, a second, more detailed model would describe the antagonist muscles as a second set of (albeit often weaker, but able to be developed) cylinders capable of producing work on each leg's upstroke. its a misunderstanding among a lot of people to think that a leg on its return-stroke (or pedal pulling) will provide as much power as on the downstroke. you're probably looking at more like 80/20. but since that 20 is being completely ignored on a platform pedal, clipless can help. I will add that from my experience, that 20% retraction is almost completely negated by inertia on a fixed gear once your cadence breaks about 80rpms...IME clipless on an FG is more about using your legs as a form of engine braking and/or keeping the inertia of the system from pulling the pedals right out from under your feet. |
Originally Posted by cg1985
(Post 7085189)
http://www.nashbar.com/nashbar_photo...-NCL-ANGLE.jpg http://www.nashbar.com/nashbar_photo...-NCL-ANGLE.jpg Not exactly sneakers, more like low hikers. There probably are some sneaker-style clipless shoes out there - Lake used to make some and the first SPD shoes I wore were sneaker style from Nashbar. (more than a few years ago.) |
Originally Posted by envane
(Post 7082617)
You don't get the massive efficiency gains that is claimed.
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Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
(Post 7083440)
A GOOD BMX pedal "locks" to a rubber soled shoe or sandal and your foot can NOT come off the pedal by accident. |
The right tool for the job - on my commuter I use cage pedals and street shoes; on my mountain bike I use mountain shoes and Time clipless pedals; on my road bike I use Sidis and Look clipless. Each has their own advantages and disadvantages.
If I could walk comfortably in my Sidis with Look cleats I would wear them for all riding as they are by far the most comfortable and efficient pedal system I have tried for riding. And for the record, my knee pain STOPPED when I started using the Look pedals. They have plenty of float and they allow me to position my feet correctly and then adjust slightly as needed. |
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
(Post 7088327)
A bike's speed is controlled by your cadence. Your cadence will be identical with good BMX pedals or clipless...cadence is a function of heart, lungs and legs...your pedals are just along for the ride.
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All the "problems" with clipless are because people who in the past wouldn't have even dreamed of using toe clips are rushing into getting clipless pedals. Using either toe clips or clipless is really intended more for sporty riding in which the experienced rider is generally more aware of what he/she is doing. They are a big money maker for bike shops though, and so way too many people who are buying non-performance oriented bikes are walking out of LBS's with clipless pedals. There is zero benefit to having your feet attached to the pedals unless you're riding with some intensity, going up hills, etc. If you are doing that, then you should consider either toe clips or clipless pedals and cycling shoes. If you aren't, then don't bother and save your money for something else.
It's kind of silly these days to see people riding very upright on comfort bikes and many hybrids using clipless pedals for riding along under 10 mph. Nothing particularly wrong with it, but don't expect that you get much benefit from using clipless for that kind of riding. If in the past, you wouldn't have put toe clips on the bike, then you probably don't need clipless pedals either. |
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
(Post 7083440)
Clipless is pointless...unless you are a pro who gets fittings from the very best people in the field. Locking yourself to a pedal is an excellent way to create business for knee surgeons but not a good way to ride a bike.
For fitness and recreational cyclists, a good BMX pedal (one that fully supports the entire forward portion of the foot) is a better way to go. It enables you to select the best foot position for your needs at a given moment, but easily change your foot to another position. A GOOD BMX pedal "locks" to a rubber soled shoe or sandal and your foot can NOT come off the pedal by accident. Rivendell sells both an expensive and an inexpensive BMX pedal made by MKS. Both are fine pedals, but the expensive one is built to last a lifetime. There are folks who do not know how a bike works, and they delude themselves into thinking that they are "lifting" the pedals with their feet. Every scientific study done on pedals proves the opposite...as the pedal rises, it is lifting your foot and leg. The speed of the bike depends on the speed of your cadence. A person who can maintain a 100 RPM cadence for an hour with clipless pedals can also maintain a 100 RPM cadence with BMX pedals. The best part about BMX pedals? They work just as well with some $20 sandals as they do with any rubber soled shoes you own. Heck, they even work with "flip flops" for a ride to the beach. I, for one, ride mtb for everything, and I DO lift on the pedals, and NO, it's not a fantasy. And, uh, if the BMX pedal claim was true, BMX pedals would come in sub-200 gram sets, and BE used by TDF riders. Even Lance had a hard time with 100rpm for 1hour+.... If you don't like clipless, ride platforms; if you've never tried them and don't care, keep on with what you're using. If you're curious, try them (SPD's are adjustable tension, good for "transition"); if you like them, ride them. But don't throw out sweeping nonsensical statements that do nothing to actually back up your position. Retrogrouches and progessive pr***s will never see eye to eye, anyway. |
Time ATAC Z's. The size of BMX platform pedals and you can clip in, the best of both worlds.
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Originally Posted by goldfishin
(Post 7082591)
anyone else hate clipless?
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Originally Posted by austropithicus
(Post 7095079)
I've never understood why they're called clipless but one needs to clip them in. WTF?
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If you think your feet "lift" the pedals, instead of the pedal lifting your foot, yes, you have a vivid imagination.
Take a bike out on a track for an hour with your feet "clipped in". Find the fastest cadence you can maintain for an hour. Put high quality BMX pedals on that same bike. Guess what? If you can maintain a 90 RPM cadence for an hour clipped in, you can maintain an 90 RPM cadence for an hour with BMX pedals. This is not something you need to guess, or speculate, or imagine. It takes five minutes to swap out a pair of pedals. An hour later, you will know the truth: being clipped in is a wonderful scam...if you are one of the people selling $200 pedals and $200 shoes. |
Clipless SUUUUUUUUUUCKS!
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I just can't imagine riding over to my local Starbucks without some sort of foot retention.
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I wouldn't say I hate clipless, but the pedals are in a box with a bunch of other spare/unused stuff. The shoes are on a shelf... somewhere.
I went from clipless on one bike, toe clips on two others, and platforms on another bike to Power Grips and have never been happier with a pedal system. |
Originally Posted by Kabloink
(Post 7083277)
I still prefer loose clips over clipless. Super easy to get in and out of and you can even use them with sneakers.
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i don't hate clipless but sometimes when i ride with kids i like to ride on standard pedals. it's a bit freeing and relaxing. i don't feel like i have to hammer. it's a different state of mind.
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I've never used clipless. I've got size 14 (US) feet, and the only pedal/shoe combo I found in that size was wwaaayyyy more $$$ than I wanted to spend. So I use clips, straps kept loose enough to exit quickly.
Most important thing is using the setup that you feel comfortable and safe with. If you're getting out and riding, thats all that matters. |
After a while using clipless becomes second nature.
These kind of look like regular shoes. I wear them on my commuter. They come in grey or brown. http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...tegory_ID=2120 |
I don't hate 'em, I just don't use 'em.don't understand why you want to be physically attached to the pedals. seems like an accident waiting to happen. but hey, whatever floats yer boat.
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actually, i do recall being a cog or two faster with clipless. it's just so annoying in traffic. every couple of minutes i have to unclip. so, i've gone back to plats, for now.
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Originally Posted by goldfishin
(Post 7082591)
i'm starting to find it annoying. today i fell over and jammed my middle finger. why? because my left shoes was clipped in even though i didn't know it.
clipping in at light also sucks. |
Originally Posted by rando
(Post 7102244)
I don't hate 'em, I just don't use 'em.don't understand why you want to be physically attached to the pedals. seems like an accident waiting to happen. but hey, whatever floats yer boat.
That being said clipless are more efficient and will make you a faster rider. And on rough terrain there is no fear of slipping or falling off your bike. However they are not for everyone. I think it all depends on your type/style of riding and how far you want to push yourself. |
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
(Post 7098391)
If you think your feet "lift" the pedals, instead of the pedal lifting your foot, yes, you have a vivid imagination.
Take a bike out on a track for an hour with your feet "clipped in". Find the fastest cadence you can maintain for an hour. Put high quality BMX pedals on that same bike. Guess what? If you can maintain a 90 RPM cadence for an hour clipped in, you can maintain an 90 RPM cadence for an hour with BMX pedals. This is not something you need to guess, or speculate, or imagine. It takes five minutes to swap out a pair of pedals. An hour later, you will know the truth: being clipped in is a wonderful scam...if you are one of the people selling $200 pedals and $200 shoes. That said your theories here about not lifting and no advantage, you are absolutely on crack. I did a little real world test. Last week all I had were pedals and toe straps and my size 10 nikes. Whatever I could do the best cadence I could hold up for any sort of distance was 105 (for about a mile or so) and a burst at 110, I averaged about 89 (around about 30 miles, and this was common for most of my rides over the past few months). This week, same bike, new pedals and Shimano tri shoes. My average for my whole ride was 95 (about 25 miles) and I was able to burst and hold 120. Unless I grew some new muscles in a week, Or I traded places with Lance himself. I think the shoes did the trick... But thats just me and testing your theory. |
Wow, there are some strongly held opinions on this thread as there always is when platforms / clipped vs clipless comes up.
I say that the greatest foot retention is obviously sticking one's foot in one's mouth. I've ridden both and am just as comfortable with MKS Pedals with Toe Clips and Straps as I ever was with my SPD's. Plus I can wear any shoe I desire. |
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