Well, this is the general cycling discussion forum, not road racing.

It's not "recreation and family" either. Lots of riders don't race but still strive for a workout on their rides. Besides, I think you're arguing against a false premise of clipless having a "massive" benefit. I have not read any posts from advocates suggesting that level of benefit.

It's not all about cruisers, sprung saddles and platforms for those of us that do not race.

Clipless don't give you a better work out. If anything they might let you go faster with less effort. Or at least less concentration on what your feet are doing. ;)
If I can spin my heavy rivendell fast enough in a 50/17 gear combo to do up near 30mph, you shouldn't have any problems on a lighter, faster, stripped down bike.
Clipless are about obtaining that last 10th of performance... that edge you need to win when every millisecond counts. You don't *need* them to get the same workout.

I like them on my road bike because they make me feel more connected and part of the sleek, precise machine between my legs (wow that sounded.... not so good), and on my commuter I like studded platforms for a multitude of reasons. But I can get the same workout on either bike.

:roflmao:

This. I love this shoe, which along with this pedal gives me the best of both worlds:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...e.cfm?SKU=2275

Some people would find it annoying to flip the pedal around, but I think it works great for transitioning from a no-traffic area to traffic. And I can wear those shoes anywhere.

Interesting discovering this discussion this afternoon. I just recently started riding again after a many year lapse. I had been using a cheapo mtb to putter around on, but now that I've gotten a larger, more comfortable bike that actually works, the longer I've been riding it, the more I've been missing my toe clips (that and my drops). I can't say I know _how_ the clips work, but I know that I ride smoother, and my confidence at higher rpms goes way up. This is the first bike I've seriously ridden that had platform pedals, and even after a bunch of years, I feel the difference, and miss being tied in.

I think that one genuine factor of being attached to the pedals is that simple fact of confidence. You can push harder when you need it, you can power up faster, and really push on the hills.

I'm not so convinced that the upstroke issue is a big issue. From my experience (consciously "pulling") I've never been convinced that there is much in that. However, I am convinced the extra rotation at both the bottom and the top of the stroke _do_ make a difference in my pedaling experience. With platforms, you aren't even getting a full half-turn of genuine power. It's more like 1/4 of a pedal stroke, if not less. Once your foot starts rounding out at the bottom, your power is way much lower than on the top 1/4 of the turn. In evidence, yesterday or Saturday, I was watching the tour, and watching how the bikes would "spurt" forward when the riders were sitting, and giving power strokes. That spurt is during that real power stroke--even with clipless pedals, they aren't getting the same power for the entire downstroke, but during only a small part of it. I am convinced, however, that when your feet are attached to the pedals, you are getting a longer useful stroke than with platforms. I would love to see genuine data from this stuff. It would most certainly get rid of some of the argument over this issue. ;-)

Lastly, for me, while clipless sound delightful (no scratches on your shoes from the clips, or squeezed feet from the straps, nor having to pause to clamp down the straps, or loosen them, and no trying to flip the pedals to get your feet in (actually, I was really good at just stepping right in without thinking about it, so that isn't such a big deal, IMO--once you learn, it's second nature). However, how easy is it to flip the clipless pedal and clip in? I bet it's no easier than planting your foot into the clips (you just don't have the strap to tighten). and who wants to change shoes when he gets to work? ;-) (I'm speaking for myself only)

Still.... gotta find me some of those Power Grips. :-)

-Jon

This is a good example of how people tend to exaggerate the benefits of clipless. You certainly can power through the top and bottom with platforms.
There is data. Here's an excellent summary of studies of pedalling efficiency from sports medicine experts like Coyle or Broker. If you look at Coyle's data (figure 1) you'll see that elite racers apply zero torque for a full 180 degrees of the pedal cycle. All the power is applied on the downstroke. All they do on the upstroke is unweight the pedal - they don't "pull up" - and the power applied through the top and bottom of the stroke (ie. right at 360/0 and 180) is minimal.

http://www.wholeathlete.com/document...artt_09-06.pdf

How was it measured? Did they use strain gauges in the pedals? Can they explain why I sometimes hop my rear wheel? Did you read where they talk about upward torque?

If there's a way to measure the actual tugging & mashing that a shoe cleat sees, I'll be glad to be a test rider. Wire me up for my commute, too. I just hope that I don't pull the cleats out of my shoes.

Here's the citation - when I get a chance I'll log onto the University server and see if it's available online.

3. Coyle EF, Feltner ME, Kautz SA, Hamilton
MT, Montain SJ, Baylor AM, Abraham
LD, and Petrek GW. Physiological
and biomechanical factors associated with
elite endurance cycling performance. Med
Sci Sports Exerc. Jan; 23(1):93-107, 1991.


Obviously you're not an elite racer :)

For me, it's been easier with clipless, even comparing to when I had my clips & straps set really loose. It's even easier with a decent platform and an easily-accessible clip system -- just put your foot on it and it'll clip in within a couple strokes.

I'm actually going to go buy another bike today, and I'll probably just ride it home with some plain platforms from the shop. I'll try not to throw my feet off the pedals on the way back. :D

When you find it, tell us more about what they said regarding upward torque. It's in the other article, after all.

Definitely not, but it makes me wish I could spin hard enough to smoke my tire every time it hops. :lol:

I'm addicted--if my present bike suddenly turned into the one I had in 1970, it'd be just fine--as long as my Shimano SPD's were still on it! There are valid reasons to not use clipless, and there are plenty of good pedals, clips, and straps available--thank your local trendy fixie riders for that--but it can be really hard to find shoes that are comfortable to ride in with them. I have heard that cheap soccer or baseball shoes with cleats strategically ground off can work--seriously.