I don't recall claiming that they work 6 times as well? Did I? And how would you measure that? For me, the purchase was rational. I doubt that I'm the only one that has purchased berthoud fenders.

They worked better as milk jugs, not so great as fenders. They were akin to riding a Specialized Rockhopper in the Tour de' France.

Because you think that people should buy $1500 bikes instead of $500 ones, you implied it. Your purchase of the $300 fenders torpedoes your argument.

Yes, that might be hard but the fact that this is a question means that one can't assume it would be 6 times as much!

No, it isn't "rational" just because you say it is! You have to present an actual argument! They would be a "rational" purchase if they performed 6 times better that the $50 (and looks don't count!). It would seem that it would be very hard to do that! But you haven't even tried!

Note that people make irrational purchases all the time. Feel free to make irrational purchases!

Lots of people buy Rolex watches that don't tell time any better than a $10 digital watch. The fact that people buy Rolexs doesn't prove that they are a rational purchase.

Heh! It would seem that, in terms of time/effort, $50 fenders are much more efficient.

I'm not sure where you keep coming up with the comparison that quality has a direct relationship to cost. I never said that $300 fenders were 6 times better than $50 fenders. I never said $1500 bikes last 3 times as long $500 bikes. And I never said that a $3000 bike is two times better than a $1500 bike.

Just to be clear, I completely understand that Lance Armstrong's $15,000 bike is not five times faster than my $3000 road bike. I ride at about 17-18 mph... Lance doesn't ride his bike at 85-90 mph. In fact, Lance could ride my bike and it would only reduce his speed by 1-2 mph - so $$$'s don't have a direct relationship to performance.

I didn't buy my bicycles to be stolen or crashed - I bought them to ride them and enjoy riding them. It never was a consideration. If that was a primary concern of mine... I wouldn't have bought a bicycle... not even one for $20.

It doesn't matter what you spend on a bicycle if it serves your function, helps you attain your objectives and goals. But, you can't buy a bicycle that meets many different criteria for a few hundred dollars. That's why there are so many different types of bicycles. I just flat out enjoy riding my bicycles. I don't ever think that, "I could have saved $500 if this bike was just one pound heavier." I know it's true, but then I wouldn't be satisfied with my bike... I'd be wanting the more expensive one that met my needs better.

njkayaker... you are the one interpreting things in a way that they were never said or intended.

1. I never said that people should buy a $1500 bike
2. I never said that $300 fenders are 6 times better than $50 fenders
3. I never said that buying a rolex was rational (it is for those people that would like one and can afford it.)

I just think I touched a nerve or pushed your buttons.... did you make a stupid bicycle purchase, and now you are trying to justify it?

I don't really care. Buy whatever you want, wherever you want. However, if you ever want to buy a bike from me... and it says $1500, you aren't getting it for $500.

This discussion reminds me of a promise I made to myself pertaining to sailing. I enjoy sailing but I live in the north and I only enjoy it in the warmer spring, summer and fall months. I have always wanted to own a boat, but I am put off by the high cost of purchase, ownership and maintenance. As a result I have always rented or chartered boats. I promised myself that I will not buy a sailboat until I actually rent or charter a boat at least once a week for the 12 weeks between mid June and mid September. I figure if I put in the time and money to go sailing once a week for each week of the summer then I will be ready to buy a boat. And every summer I only find the time to go sailing a couple of times. Therefore, I am not ready to actually buy a boat.

I "misread"? Right...You posted this in General Cycling Discussion, not Road Cycling or Road Racing. In your original post you mention "commuting, road racing, touring, and cyclocross." I don't know, maybe I'm just slow but I certainly didn't pick up on the fact that we were solely discussing road bikes for the purpose of racing. Or is that group rides? You seem to be flip flopping back and forth in between the two .throughout this thread in between talking about how much money you've spent on cycling gear, which I'm beginning to believe is the main reason you started this thread.

I started out cycling again, after not doing much since childhood and some short commuting and path riding in college, on a $700 road bike. For me, it was an awesome bike when I bought and still an ok bike 5 years later when I sold it to my dad. I did various club rides on it, some organized rides, and a few solo centuries including a 143 mile, one day ride to a friend's house for a BBQ. I lost close to 40 lbs. riding that bike too. I only sold it because it became redundant after purchasing another road bike and then a very road bike-like commuter. The price of the bike certainly never held me back. I out rode plenty of people on more expensive bikes and people on less expensive bikes out rode me too.

If anyone is "flip flopping" it's njkayaker. As you can see, he goes back and edits every post after his arguments have been trashed.

Planet Bike Cascadias have very good long mudflaps already installed. Many cyclotourists use them. Actually there are LBS people that do tell folks to buy SKS or PLanet Bike,mine for example,and including Rivendell. Nothing wrong with your choice very nice fenders,noisy and harder to install but classy for sure. Considered them for my new tourer but thought the PB's though not as nice to look at, but more practical as they are going to take a beating.

This is the core problem; as I see/express it, people ignore the fact that, since 1975, nearly everything has gone up 500% or more -- gas was 40c/gallon, a Big Mac was 55c, a pack of cigarettes was 50c, a new Firebird was $5000, and a good bike could be had new for $100-150. Now, a basic car is $20K, gas is nearly $3/gallon, a Big Mac is like $2.75, cigarettes are $5/pack... and a good new bike can be had for <=$1000. But people don't get it; they think a good bike can still be had, NEW, for $100, and go nuts WHEN, not if, it doesn't work out that way.

$100 Wal-Mart Mongoose =/= a good bike. $75 Wal-Mart Roadmaster = boat anchor.

Two types I just LOOOVE:

1. "That bike has to have (insert impossible condition here) before I spend MY money on it! If I'm spending $100, it's gotta be PERFECT!"
2. The ones who think there's no difference between a Wally bike and an LBS bike except price.

It's a sad truth that a 90's bike from just about ANYONE is likely better than a new bike from a box store.

I'm sure that LBS people sell a lot of SKS and Planet Bike fenders. They are good products. The LBS bike shop wrench took a look at my bike, asked me what kind of riding I do, and said that the best fenders for my bike would be the berthouds. He has them on his bike and he said they have been great. He said, "they aren't bombproof, but they are about as close as you can get." He said that they could be powder coated any color I like and that the powder coating would also provide additional protection from the elements. If I couldn't afford them, I would have bought Planet Bikes. However, the mud flaps on the PB's were not nearly as long as the ones that I purchased.

Cycling is as expensive as the person buying the bicycle wants to make it. The best part is that it's pretty much free after you make your initial investment, try saying something like that about golf or car ownership.

This thread is funny...

+1...I do keep my old running shoes around for rain days, might as well have a rain bike. And the LBS charges $30 a day for a rental, maybe i could charge $15 and start recouping money! + another 1 for business opportunity!

Another reason why I wouldn't spend a lot on a bike is because there are too many fools on the trails/roads, bikers, cars, runners, i wouldn't want my expensive bike around any of them! When i learned a partner at my work was riding lance's bike i didn't want to be within 30 feet of the guy! Crash into a $15k bike and then get fired...no thanks!

This thread reminds me of that "arguing on the internet" image. ** Disclaimer: I think the special olympics do a great thing and I'm not trying to disrespect anyone. The image is just funny and bad.

InTheRain, I'd really love to see your bike. Sounds awesome. Do you have any pics please?

I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

I have been in a lot of forums over the years and this type of discussion almost always pops up sooner or later. When I first got into Astronomy I dropped into the Astronomy forums and asked the same questions as we do in the Cycling forums. People buy or try things for different reasons and dropping the dime on an item before you “know’ for sure how long your commitment last or the direction that commitment take is just as suspect as starting out with a bit of timidity. I was told in the Astronomy forums that there was no reason not to just save up for an expensive scope because I wouldn’t be happy with an entry level one. I bought a used light bucket from the head of our astronomy club and for a year or two was very happy looking at DSOs with a high powered scope. But today I prefer Astronomical Binoculars because of the wider FOV.
Cycling is a lot like any other activity when you first get into it. You think you know what you want but until you get into it you don’t “know” what you will need. That is why most cyclists understand the N+1 formula. Trying to put a spread sheet to human activity or desire is a waste of time and effort. It might be interesting in theory but in reality it all flies out the window once a customer walks into a store.

You're interested in seeing a couple of dirty bikes that have been ridden InTheRain? I don't consider them to be really great looking bikes. I guess they could be, if I cleaned them after every ride. Parts and accessories on the bikes were purchased mostly for functionality, performance, and durability. But yeah, one day I could put some pics up... only to hear the criticism.

I have OCD so I'm gonna lecture on keeping dirty bikes. Shame on you!!

But seriously, I'm always interested in seeing someone's bikes. This is a bike forum after all!

In regards to your question, many have already said most of the answers but for me personally, I try to get the best that I can feasibly justify for. I just purchased a hybrid bike for running errands and such on sale for $470. For what it has, a comparable bike of another brand runs about $200 more.

My mtn bike, the full suspension, was also on sale but that bike ran a pretty penny. I love that bike and I feel no need to get anything more because of my needs in terms of my riding advancement.

My road bike is another story. I got a bike that is way above what I would consider even spending for a roadie since.......well, I couldn't ride road because of the position and my bulging disk. But because I had to have it special made, I ended up having to spend quite a bit. The bike fits me perfect, I don't have pain (like I did when I test rode roadies) and can ride for hours on it.

Edit: The offer is still on for the pics. I'll post all three of the above if you post your *ahem* dirty bikes.

...

For me, I didn't know exactly what I wanted / needed when I got my first bike. My primary concern was "The local transit is going on strike, I want a way to get into work".

The idea of biking 100km in a day seemed silly to me at the time, and I just wanted/needed a beat around bike. Was my first time buying a bike since high-school.

So, yeah - a $500 bike at the time seemed perfectly reasonable. At the time, I wasn't looking into doing long-distance rides, multi-day touring, etc.

Then, I got peddling, and more so in the 2nd year of having my bike - I started to do longer distances, riding more often, and my needs / desires out of a bike changed. This resulted in me gifting my old bike to my friend, and buying a new bike that better fits my new needs.

I think that there are a lot of people that 'first get into it' in a similar way. They don't really know what they need / want, they mostly want a 'commuter bike', and after they get riding a bit - either their needs change, or they realize what their actual needs are.

I guess one point I'll agree on with you : If someone is specifically looking into getting into racing / cyclo cross / touring / triathlons / etc, and know "yes, I am getting this bike so I can race" -- then I do think that budget should factor a bit less into the picture.

But for someone that's just buying a bike for the first time in a few years, doesn't really know their full 'needs' yet or how they plan on biking, I don't think having a budget in mind is a bad thing

That's funny. I decided to fix up the daughter's SO's Wally Mongoose, and road it to their house yesterday, you could have fooled me that it didn't belong on the end of a chain, several fathoms under water.

I recently picked up a mid 80s Univega Gran Rally off an old friend's front lawn. He had bought it new just to have a bike to cruise around the neighborhood on. This was a high end bike, Shimano 600 components & sew-up tires. He's about 5'6". The frame is way to big for him (57 cm) but perfect for me. It was ridden 3-4 times & then left to rot in the backyard. Not an enjoyable bike for him to ride at all. Could have saved several hundred bucks & bought a low-end mountain bike or a beach cruiser. Might have ended up with a love of riding. I've just finished refurbishing it. What piece of jewelry this bike is. It's going on Craigslist but priced high so's I can ride it a long time.

Some of the regular riders around here are riding bikes that are mediocre at best, but fit their style better than a "serious" road bike. Got the local eccentric with a custom made wooden crate on back of his hybrid. You'll see this guy everywhere- slow but steady.

I agree with everything you said. My point has been throughout the entire thread that budget should not be such a big factor in the decision for someone that knows what they want (and they list it in the criteria for a bike recommendation.)

If you don't know what you want, I'm perfectly fine with getting anything with two wheels just to start riding.

Isn't that blindingly obvious?

And isnt it also a bit disingenuous to talk about beginners buying their first bike (which is where most of those "what $500 bike to get" posts come from) and somehow bring in what people who know what they want (ie, not beginners) should do?

Or is there some nuance to it that I am missing?

V.

Yes.

Yes, people want great stuff to be cheap. (Never mind, that's obvious too!)