Originally Posted by chipcom (Post 11239629)

Are you claiming that my wife and I can't spend romantic time together on our bikes...as we do?
Why do you feel the need to interrupt our time together?
Do you think the chicks will dig you more if it seems like you have friends?
Do you understand the concept of good manners?

Also, your assumption that people only attempt to wheel-suck when we are going "fast enough to draft" is incorrect.

Originally Posted by chipcom (Post 11239649)

You keep making false assumptions. I'll write if off to inexperience.

Originally Posted by chipcom (Post 11239672)

OMG, his draft wasn't legitimate....yeah, that makes all the difference. :lol:

Dude, why is it so hard for you to understand that just because a group of people are riding bikes, that they may not want to include you in their group and/or make you privy to their conversations....at any speed?

Originally Posted by BlazingPedals (Post 11237709)

You should get permission by the person you're drafting. It may affect the manner in which they ride; for instance doing the things Machka points out. Maybe they don't want to be bothered to point out obstacles to you, in which case you should leave them alone.

Originally Posted by itsthewoo (Post 11240176)

At 20 mph, I sincerely doubt you'll be doing more than an occasional back and forth. Also, again with the ad hominem attack. Did you have a particularly bad day and feel the need to take it out on someone?

Originally Posted by chipcom (Post 11239629)

Are you claiming that my wife and I can't spend romantic time together on our bikes...as we do?
Why do you feel the need to interrupt our time together?
Do you think the chicks will dig you more if it seems like you have friends?
Do you understand the concept of good manners?

Also, your assumption that people only attempt to wheel-suck when we are going "fast enough to draft" is incorrect.

Originally Posted by itsthewoo (Post 11240176)

Did I ever say that I participate in these sort of activities (drafting off of people I don't know)? Why are you attacking me personally? Additionally, the topic at hand is "drafting etiquette" not "wheel sucking at any speed etiquette." Not to mention that the concept of "good manners" is awfully subjective and the more important issue at hand is that nobody is in danger rather than somebody encroaching on your personal space bubble of r=1 meter.


At 20 mph, I sincerely doubt you'll be doing more than an occasional back and forth. Also, again with the ad hominem attack. Did you have a particularly bad day and feel the need to take it out on someone?


A legitimate draft is when you're actually within the pocket of space behind the bicyclist in front of you that has minimal air resistance. This pocket is very small, and if you're farther than a foot away wheel-to-wheel, you're not getting very much of the benefit of drafting. But I'll write your lack of knowledge here off due to inexperience.

You'll enjoy life much more if you're less uptight about things and more friendly to people in general. Not everyone cares, and not everyone realizes that some people care. Instead of getting auto-mad about it, why don't you just let the guy know politely that you'd like more space for you and your partner/buddy/self?

Originally Posted by Machka (Post 11242121)

+1

Rowan and I were riding along the Great Ocean Road ... gorgeous day, beautiful scenery ... a few months ago, when all of a sudden I picked up a tail. This guy stuck to my butt like glue for kilometer after kilometer. I tried pulling way over so he could pass. I tired slowing down even slower than I was already riding. Rowan and I rode side by side and chatted, trying to make it clear we were a couple who wanted to ride together. But I couldn't shake him, and I couldn't talk to him because he would not come up beside me and the traffic was too heavy to hear if I tried to shout back to him. It puzzled me why he stayed back there given that my flat ground speed was about 18 km/h and my uphill speed was about 8 km/h. Surely he would have been faster riding alone.

Riding with your spouse can be very romantic. :) :) Rowan and I rode a century during the early part of the day of our wedding. It was our wedding century, to celebrate the fact that we met on a long ride and got to know each other on subsequent long rides. We finished the century about 4 pm and then got married. It was a lovely memorable day ... but if a stranger had come along and tried to ride with us, that would have likely detracted from the day.

Originally Posted by hsilman (Post 11234519)

I was cruising along the Hudson River Greenway today on my way home from work when I happened to be barely passed by a couple of guys going slightly faster than my normal cruising speed. I decided to drop in behind them for a bit since they were going my way, the lead on a road bike and the follower on a mtb with slicks.

Anyways, I end up drafting off them for a good 3 miles or so before my turn off and it helped me easily gain about 3 mph over my usual pace and expend a lot less energy.

My question is, do you generally mind when people are sucking your wind? It seemed like they knew each other, and they knew what I was up to. They never seemed annoyed or said anything to me. It was actually a nice break on my way home to not have to fight the wind off the water for the whole 5 miles.

But, being new to cycling I didn't want to do anything rude or break some kind of unwritten code. Also, I don't know physics that well but was I making the lead guy work harder to "pull" me forward?

just wondering how you guys feel about strangers pacing you when you are out for a ride?

Originally Posted by RiPHRaPH (Post 11242629)

GEEZ. Does everyone on this site have ADHD or something? Poster gives a specific situation and they get on a tangent

Originally Posted by chipcom (Post 11242491)

Yeah, you're nitpicking the definition of drafting and what this thread is about and I am the one who's uptight. :rolleyes:
You obviously don't get it...hopefully someday you will.

Originally Posted by Machka (Post 11242936)

I find it interesting how many people these days like to be near other people. This drafting thing is one example. You can see another example in a cafe or similar. You choose a table away from everyone ... and next thing you know, someone is sitting at the table right next to you, rather than choosing any number of other empty tables in the place. Or camping ... you set up a tent at the far end of the campground away from everyone else, and the next thing you know, someone else is setting up a tent right beside yours despite the fact that there are numerous other perfectly good choices some distance away.

It's almost as though the respect for other people's personal space is diminishing.

I have a theory that it has something to do with the daycare generation. When kids are put into daycare centres at a very early age, they learn to do everything in groups ... the group is the norm. And when they grow up, they feel uncomfortable being by themselves.

We shouldn't have to be put into the situation where we have to tell a wheel sucker to go away. Wheel suckers should respect other cyclists' right to ride their own ride. The onus should be on the wheel sucker to introduce him/herself and to ask whether or not it is OK to be there.

Originally Posted by asindc (Post 11243152)

As with most interactions, common curtesies usually work for most people. If you join a group, politely ask if they mind if you join, but be prepared to hear a polite no. If someone joins you unexpectedly, politely tell them you prefer that they not ride along. It really should not be more difficult than that.

Originally Posted by chipcom (Post 11243225)

you'd think...but some people just can't take a hint, no matter how nice you try to be.

Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz (Post 11243286)

I've had hundreds of riders draft me. The 2 times I asked them to back off for good reasons, they got pretty nasty. My wife was bruised up pretty badly from her bike accident. A dude took her wheel as we rolled by so I explained the situation and asked him to back off. He got nasty and refused so I eventually had to tell him to get the F off her wheel. :mad:

I just might move to FL where the riders drop off then say "My bad"! :D

Originally Posted by Machka (Post 11242936)

...It's almost as though the respect for other people's personal space is diminishing.

I have a theory that it has something to do with the daycare generation. When kids are put into daycare centres at a very early age, they learn to do everything in groups ... the group is the norm. And when they grow up, they feel uncomfortable being by themselves...

Originally Posted by chipcom (Post 11243225)

you'd think...but some people just can't take a hint, no matter how nice you try to be.

Originally Posted by chipcom (Post 11243225)

you'd think...but some people just can't take a hint, no matter how nice you try to be.

Originally Posted by itsthewoo (Post 11243619)

You're not understanding cultural and societal relativism. In many societies worldwide, the concept of "personal space" doesn't even exist. There just isn't any room for it. Again, you guys are, for some reason, making the assumption that people that "invade" your arbitrarily defined personal space are personally trying to rain on your parade. How are other people supposed to know what your personal space radius is? How are people supposed to understand your personal space requirement if they weren't raised on the same ideas as you? Seriously, you guys are getting twisted out of shape on things that are extremely personal and arbitrary issues.

In reference to the Mr. Beanz mentioning a guy refusing to get off of their wife's wheel, I can't understand why he got nasty. That would be like you visiting another country and not realizing you were doing something offensive and getting nasty when someone informs you. Basically, it sounds like the guy was just a dick in general.


Again, giving people "hints" is passive aggressive. Just tell them to get off.

Chipcom, I really don't understand why, but you seem to be particularly frustrated by my different opinion on the matter and are being awfully callow toward me in this thread. You didn't even address the counterpoints I made to your response earlier. The fact is that the posts I replied to were attempting to use the term "drafting" in a specific manner. You argued the point and I responded accordingly. You haven't responded to my last rebuttal and are now proceeding to attack me indirectly through your replies to other people. Classy.

Edit: And once again, I never said that I would personally do this. In fact, I already said that it should not be done because it is dangerous. I'm with DataJunkie in that I only draft off of riders I know/trust.

Originally Posted by chipcom (Post 11244215)

I suspect that part of the problem is that you take words a bit too literally. Just telling someone to get off IS a hint.
Yes, I am making fun of you...because you still obviously don't get it so I see no sense in trying to seriously engage and prefer to entertain...at your expense. Don't take it too seriously or personally. ;)

Originally Posted by itsthewoo (Post 11244544)

It's the internet; not saying things literally is detrimental to having people actually understand you.

I'm pretty sure I hit the nail on the head that you're approaching this from a severely personal view without taking into account the fact that other people have different ideas, opinions, and beliefs. That's fairly analogous to a fanatic religious person telling someone that they're inherently evil for not believing in a god. I think the pot is calling the kettle black here.

Trust me. Life is much more enjoyable with an open mind.