Doohickie

We lost two bike shops in Fort Worth at the end of last year. One was my favorite. I knew one of the owners before they opened up. They are in their late 50s/early 60s, ran the shop for about 3 years, made enough to cover the bills but not enough to actually make money off the venture (despite 50% increases each month compared to same month previous year). They said if they were in their 30s, they would have stuck it out. But at their age, they checked the box and moved on.

The other shop had kind of an odd story. It was opened as a partnership. One partner had another opportunity in another field and sold his share to the other partner. A year or so later, he was back and opened up another shop a mile or two from the original. within a year the original shop closed his doors. He wasn't doing as well as they originally were as a team, and when his former partner opened up nearby I think it killed what business he had. He wasn't exactly a people person, and toward the end he seemed to lose his bearings. (No, not a pun)

Machka 

Very few of the bicycle shops I've dealt with have offered any of that stuff. A few have had group rides, but only for top-level road riders ... not for anyone who might be remotely slow or recreational. Only one shop I know of has had bicycle maintenance classes, and most couldn't be bothered with newbies, or anything other than top-level road riders.

But clothing stores have fashion shows, food stores of various sorts offer cooking advice, and hardware stores offer all sorts of classes for DYI projects. Bicycle shops could take notes on what other shops do.

BarracksSi

Too bad you got stuck with such crappy shops...

Connell

I'll support my LBS whenever possible, but not at any price. And by that I don't mean how much they charge, but how they treat the customers. I'm fortunate enough to live close to a major city with plenty of choice. Some of the LBS are great, others not so much.

I used to frequent one in particular, but will never set foot in there again after the condescending way the staff treated a female friend who went there on my recommendation. After that, I visited another store and was bowled over by their friendliness and the level of service they offered. They get my business now.

In contrast, I grew up in a small town with only one bike shop. The Internet didn't exist then and going to another town wasn't an option. That store had you by the short and curlies and they knew it. I was only 11 or 12 when I first got into cycling and had to save my weekly allowance to buy bike stuff. I loved my bike but dreaded having to go into that store and deal with the smug, know-it-all staff who's idea of a great joke was to send me out the door with the wrong part and then give me crap when I tried to exchange it. The manager was the worst of the bunch.

Eventually, someone opened a new store and the original place went out of business in 6 months. The guy who managed the original store tried to get a job at the new place and the owner told him if he ever set foot on the premises again, it would be the last thing he did.

The advent of both the Internet and big box stores has changed the way 'all' retailers do business. It's a different world today than it was 20 or 30 years ago. But there's still room for stores offering a level of service and support which can't be found online or at Home Depot. Not all will survive but for the most part, the good ones will.

sknhgy 

My nearest shop is about an hour away. Wish they were closer. They make an effort to be nice to their customers.
There's another shop closer but they are worthless as far as service goes. Good thing for them they sell other stuff too.

Jose Mandez

I think both the internet and LBSs have their place. I try to support LBS when I can, at least the good ones. I don't buy everything from there, but reasonably priced stuff that I can't get for much cheaper online (depending on the shop and the price, I'll buy spare tubes, water bottle cages, tires, freewheels and derailleurs). Many of them will also offer you good deals that you didn't even ask for if you are a regular customer (such as giving you a handful of skewers or other spare parts for free). they're also very convenient if you want to get a part to get your bike on the road without having to wait a week. There were two shops back in the city in Indiana where I came from, a larger shop with 4-5 staff members, and a smaller shop that was owned by a guy in his fifties but usually only staffed by a young man in his 20's. I found I got better service and prices at the smaller shop (although their selection was sometimes lacking).

stedanrac

Hey, did you ever find out where Hayward Cycles/Jeff Moore ended up?

rdtompki

I deal with two very different LBS, both good in their own way. The only bicycle shop in my small town provides excellent service and to my way of thinking undercharges. Example: I brought in our tandem to have him do a tweak on the RD. He's a great wrench and the bike was returned to me the bill being $10. I know he didn't have to spend much time on the bike, but I wouldn't expect to have anything done to a bike for less than $20. He doesn't stock much, but when I can I'll buy something there. I bought my wife's CF bike there; sometimes it isn't exclusively about getting the absolute best price. He does 4 rides/week during the summer months, 2/week in winter and does spin classes in his shop. I've seen his shop filled with several boy scouts working on their bikes. I sure hope he stays in business because he's a real asset to a small town.

The second LBS is 70 miles away and sells tandems only (I bought our daVinci there). He has a large shop with 4-5 brands of tandems, clothing, shoes, etc. The service is absolutely first rate and I can get anything I need overnighted to me either by giving them a call or using the website. When you shop for a bike in his shop there is no pressure; if you want to ride four different tandems three times each that fines with him and his son. With the economy improving I believe his shop is doing ok and his internet business is expanding; I see first hand how hard he has to work to run a good small business and only hope that he's able to relax a bit one of these days.

I certainly shop on the internet for items that I feel comfortable buying there, but when you need advice it can be a challenge to wade through the web ether and even the likes of this very excellent site. Time is money and a good LBS understands the value of service and good advice over trying to sell the latest gizmo or whatever they have left in inventory.

tpelle

I'm temporarily working in Moreno Valley, CA. I looked on Mapquest for an LBS out here, as I was thinking about buying a used bike for recreation and possibly commuting. I couldn't find either one, even though I drove up and down the street several times. i then bought a bike from BD.

After I got the BD bike assembled I was looking for accessories - frame pump, spare tube, rear rack, etc. Since I hadn't found an LBS I went to Sports Authority. A sales guy there directed me to the ONLY LBS in town. I bought the frame pump and spare tube, but when I asked about a rack, the guy had nothing for a bike with 700c wheels, and what he had started at $91.00!

I bought the rack from Nashbar.

Honestly I can't understand why there are not more bike shops in a town in California. But I tried to support them - they just didn't have what I wanted.

knobster

What's going to suck is when oil gets so expensive that it makes buying from the Internet cost prohibitive and then we're left with nothing. No local stores and the overseas ones' will be so expensive, due to shipping, that we'll long for the days of the more expensive LBS.

ratdog

How so, you still have to pay for product to be brought to the store via UPS, Fedex or USPS.

tpelle

Go ahead! Bring logic into this argument! See how you are?

Machka 

Don't you know ... LBSs all over the world have magic warehouses out back so they can manufacture everything for the shop on site.

Standalone 

My local moved into a larger more centrally located space. It had been kind of a dingy scrappy cluttered atmospheric place, and is now still kind of DIY, but cleaner and generally nicer. I do prefer cluttered vintage-friendly shops, but I'm glad to see the shop doing well.

The place has always had a bit of a hipster feel, but I think all the wrenches and sales guys don't really reflect the hipper-than-thou condescending stereotypes. I don't really feel like any more of a dork in there than I do anywhere else. Mostly because I generally *am* a dork....

bkaapcke

I checked on Hayward Bicycles; no forwarding info, just a notice of closure. OTOH, Cyclepath is open and being run by the landlord. I went in and had a look. Lots of general inventory, and more new bikes than I would expect in a recession. I'm not sure about doing business there, though. I liked the former owners and didn't like the way the change went down. We'll see. bk

Burton

Some of the posts in this thread are probably based more on emotion than logic.

The idea that you can buy anything on the Internet for 1/3 of what is sells in any LBS is a complete fantacy. Mark-up are nowhere near that high.

The only `deals` I`ve seen offerred on the Internet foe `new` parts have been for OE parts. Thats Original Equipment parts from bikes that have been bought in lots and stripped down and sold off as parts. That means chains have been shortened and steering tubes cut and unless you know exactly what you`re buying - it may not fit when you get it.

But aside from that - every dealer I know has a catalogue and will order anything that interests you. How is that any different than Internet shopping? In my area two of the major distributors are in the same city and delivery in next day. One supplier delivers free of charge.

In the long run I suspect that lots of people deal over the Internet simply because they don`t have to or want to interact with anyone to do it. I`ve heard a few comments about attitudes of personnel in some of the local shops. From the point of view of someone that works at a number of shops - there are lots of times that I have to bite my tongue because of some of the attitudes of some customers. Just look at some of the posts that go on in this forum!

And in the long run people spend more money more consistantly at the grocery store than they do at any bicycle store - on or off the Internet. Not only is the business seasonal - the average client doesn`t buy a bike every year. and spends less on maintenance and tune-ups than they do on beer.

LemondFanForeve

Im sure this does happen in many places. I just walked into "The Bicycle Doctor" shop on York, in Highland Park, Ca, AFTER they were closed(hours said open til 6pm, it was 7), the guy @ the shop waved me in, as I was outside browsing. He stopped what he was doing, and talked to me about a bike. Nice guy, and said" you should call when the owner is here on Mon, he will help you better than I can". Was very very nice, and definitely earned at least another visit from me.

When i owned my Bianchi, the guy @ the store i bought iut from, could not have been nicer to me, and that was over 20+ yrs ago. ONLY 1 person was kind of jerky, but they got rid of him I think. Everyone else was great, knowledgeable, nice, and knew exactly what I needed, or was talking about. Im sure thats few and far between now, but they do still exist. I cant tell you what to do with your cash, as im an admitted Ebayer myself, but, maybe give them another try(walking into a LBS) sometime? Maybe they might be different towards you.

LemondFanForeve

The one by me I used to frequent, was EXACTLY like that too. It was such a cool shop, that if anyone had a question, they could ask a fellow custie, and usually get a good response. I had a question once about my wheels, and a total stranger(local LBS shopper and rider himself), who was standing by me, as i was waiting to talk to the mechanic there, asked what the problem was? I told him, and VERY COOLY, he says" oh buddy, all you have to do is this and this and this, here, let me show you", and proceeded to do just that. The mechanic looked over and said "I see you've met (we'll use Pete here) Pete? great guy and very knowledgeable, he mustve taken a liking to you, he only does that to people he likes"." Turns out, he(dude) had the same Bianchi I did, and liked the La Vie Claire team too, so we hit it off i guess you could say. Rode a few times, and then he moved away, but was very very cool.

Also, that same shop had a few tables in it, where, on any given day, you could go in there, and see about 15 folks sitting around, talking bikes, and cycling, and answering questions you might have. They were the coolect cats there. Never an attitude with you, never a "you're such a dummy...blah blah blah". It was ALWAYS" hey, you've asked a great question, lemme show you how to do that". Never asked for a dime in return, just a sort of "pay it forward" thing. You see them around enough, and they you, you become fans of the sport, and you want to help each other out, thats how it is. They were never paid a cent by the LBS, just there to help out fellow riders, THAT was one of the biggest reasons I always shopped there, and ONLY there.

JonathanGennick 

I disagree. It's not fantasy at all. Last year I purchased a couple of SLX cranksets online for $140 at a time when a nearby bike shop had them on the shelf for $240. I bought new-in-the-box parts. Even now you can pay $249 at REI or $153 at Chain Reaction. That is a significant price range and it pays to shop around.

OEM parts and closeouts provide even better deals. If one is not picky about brand and model, and is willing to settle for whatever handlebar, shifters, seatpost, crankset etc., might be on closeout at a given time, one can save a fair bit of money on parts. I've been buying LX cranks rather than SLX due to the pricing at Jenson. You do need to know your way around the bike though, and be able to do your own work.

Burton

If you`re going to bother to quote me it would be nice if you quoted be completely and actually came up with a valid argument.

Not only is the example you posted not a 3 to 1 ratio, I wouldn`t have much trouble finding a 2 to 1 price difference between some Internet prices. Internet sellers aren`t much different than brick and mortar businnesses. Prices aren`t uniform for everyone and in many cases price is negotiable.

And I did mention and excluded OE parts in my original comment, but since you want to go there anyway - let me point out that some brick and mortar businesses do the same thing. In fact Jenson USA actually has retail outlets in the US and for people living nearby - they`re actually a LBS. In fact some deals are ONLY available to walk-in customers.

So I`m not quite sure how or why you want to make such a distinct seperation when a lot of businesses are actually running their businesses both ways from the same addresses.

JonathanGennick 

@Burton, sorry. You're right. My examples don't amount to 1/3rd the price. I misread your post as "1/3rd off". My bad on that one. I may have read and posted a bit hastily.

I would agree that one can't just find any given part on the Internet for a deep discount. If one wants the deep discounts, imho, one must be willing to compromise and settle for whatever it is that happens to on sale at any given moment, which might mean last year's parts, or something that's not trendy, or some technology that is on the way out.

Artkansas 

Actually Whole Foods has quite a few programs like that.

BarracksSi

And Whole Foods ain't too cheap, is it? Never mind that its CEO makes his own (political) controversies...

Doohickie

I guess I'm not typical then. I actually *try* to think of things I can buy at the LBS, just to give me a valid excuse to hang out there for a while. I could have gotten my Brooks B72 for a little less online, but I wanted to give the LBS some business because of all the times I hang out there without a valid excuse

I bought my dynamo lights there, even though they order from Peter White same as I can, and charge the same prices Peter does (I guess he charges wholesale to bike shops). I could read the descriptions just the same as the guys at the LBS, but I want to benefit from their direct experience in terms of putting lighting systems on customer bikes, not to mention their own experience with lighting (and the owner is a randonneur). They know I like the best value for the buck and don't want the fanciest stuff just because it's fancy, and the set me up with a reasonably priced system that fit all my requirements. If I had done it on my own I would have gotten something different probably, and wouldn't have been as happy with it.

I recently had him check some stuff on my bike and he made some minor adjustments, while we were standing there talking (no other customers). He didn't charge me; he said he didn't do enough. So I grabbed a shop t-shirt and bought it.

To me, the benefits of being in good with the LBS is worth paying the (sometimes higher) prices. I don't want to lose my shop. That already happened to me once; I don't want to lose another.