Are those Lupine Edisons we're banging together? You forgot to mention selling your first-born as a way to perfect lights.

Same problem here... someone stole my second spare battery at work, now I am down to one. I have to buy a new 159 dollar battery also inorder to see at night. If my job paid 200 more a month I would get a 6 hour system and be done with it. It would be nice to have 6 hours on my patrol bike with HID.

Until then... buying a new battery

I have a Cygolite HID and absolutely love it.. There's absolutely no way I'll ever ever ever own a halogen system after seeing the kind of light that a HID puts out. I spent $290 on my HID and don't feel the least bit bad about it. Maybe when my Cygo dies, I'll consider a Lupine. For now, I'm content with my 12w CygoLite Z-Force NiMH.

esp. with a 4 hour run time.

Anyone ever checked out the BLT products?
4.5 hour HID
or their 6 hour 12 watt LED that's nearly as bright as a 12 watt HID
Except that unlike the HID, the LED is almost as bright with a 15 year bulb life and it's shock resistant.
They have a 4 watt LED with the equivalent of 20 watts of halogen and a whopping 20 hours of battery life, that's what I'm interested in for commuting. Use all week on 1 charge. And nearly invulnerable to crashes, of which I've had my share and broken 4 halogen bulbs, proprietary ones (not MR11) from light & motion, at $20 a pop or $80 of lights. If I used HID, that'd be $300 of replacement bulbs.

$600 dollars for a bike light? Then someone thinks that $500 dollars for a light is a better deal? Have you expensive light freaks lost your minds? How much will too much for a light be? $800, $1,000, or more? You don't need to spend anywhere near that kind of money to get more then adequate lighting for a bike. I think your all trying to have a contest to see who will have the brightest light on a bicycle without regard to price; either that or some of you have such high degree of disposable income that $900 for light is pocket change.

Talk about night blindness; if your light is too bright the reflected glare off the pavement will induce night blindness so if you try to look at something away from your light you won't see it as well. Also your not suppose to either drive a car or ride a bike and look into the light spot on the road, your suppose to look beyond the edge of the light into the darkness, your not going to be able to do that if your pupils are closed! I'm 50+ years old and ride with a 12.5 watt Cygo Metro (that cost $48 by the way), and at my "advance" age have no problems with night blindness that would require anything much brighter then that-and certainly not any brighter then 16 watts.

i have the cygolite HID, which has plenty of light, I like the fact that it's bright, others can see me, and I can see where I'm going...it's a 12W HID, I looked into other systems, but this seems like a good deal...4hr run time 5 hour charge time...if you notice most of the time you're paying for run/charge time...I was looking at the NiMH Night Rover til I saw run/charge time....

Most cheaper lights use MR11 bulbs that aren't made for use on the road. I have a mid-range light & motion that uses a seperately designed bulb and reflector that puts a nice spot in the center that gradually gives way to a flood around it. So it lights up the entire road without a huge blinding spot in the center. Cheaper HID lights also have this problem with the beam pattern, especially when mountain biking where the bright center beam would completely destroy your night vision towards things at the side of the path. A lot of people complain that l&m's HID's don't project the beam far enough for the road, which is the point, they're actually designed to spread the beam as wide as possible so you can see the entire trail.
From afar, a 10+ watt HID and a 20 watt halogen are both blinding to drivers with the exception of color temperature. They won't be able to tell the difference between "really bright" and "really really bright". But having a different color temperature will make some drivers hesitate or at least wonder what it is. It's a psychological thing.

Lume Lighting recently released a wide beam version of their light for the above reasons:

I am rather impressed with the cygos flood properties.

Just cause I'm bored tonight, here's some of mtbr's beam comparisons:
Here's a 13 watt light & motion halogen:


15 watt BLT halogen:


Light & motion 12watt HID:


Niterider 12watt HID:


Turbocat 47 watt halogen:


So for those of you that claim a 12 watt HID is equivalent to a 50+ watt halogen, I hope the above puts things in perspective.

I'd say 12 watt HID is more like 30W halogen. I like the light color mucho better

what kinda run time does that turbocat get anyways?

god that 47w halogen is ridiculous... that's a LOT of light. Does it even get an hour of runtime at that brightness?

40 minutes probably..or a battery as big as my thigh

There are quite a few things to talk about. Some have been well addressed already in this thread. I'll just mention a couple more. There's more to it than just what's been said and what I'm going to touch on.

I did not understand this before I had experienced exactly what I have. I assumed the exact same things you did, I'm not any smarter than you, I just learned from the experience of what I did. If you understand what I'm saying and take it in without having to experience it, you're probably smarter than I am. I hope I'm not preaching. I'm trying to make it easy to understand, that's all. Maybe someone out there is trying to decide to buy a HID or not, by reading this. I try to learn about potential purchases this way.

For riding in a place where you want to see a person, a bottle, an animal on the pavement at medium speeds the Metro will work. If you have sturdy tires and don't run over any glass you will be fine. The price is a bargain too, for that kind of use.

If you want to ride a fast bike with high performance tires, and miss every little small piece of glass, the Metro will not work. I did not say " Inexpensive lights are no good" I did not say "expensive lights are better" nor will I ever. In that situation the metro will not work. I have tested a Metro for a bike shop for a couple of weeks before they decided it was a product to offer for sale.

For the past two years, more than once a week, I have been riding four hours and longer in the dark to return home at the end of a 100 plus mile ride. I need my four hour run time from the HID light. You get
a longer run time from the same size battery, not just high power. If I remember correctly the metro goes 1.5 hours on high and 3 on low. I might be off, Is that about right? So 3 hours on 6.5 watts? Even if my memory is not exactly correct , you can see my point, I can't get 4 hours on high. This is fine for lots of uses, not for the scenario that is my favorite ride. On some hills I go down every single time I ride, I go about 35 mph or more. I would be over driving the Cygo, I will not be able to stop fast enough on my 23mm wide tires on that particular bike.

To follow the light makers instructions you point the HID light straight forward, not down at the road. This prevents a bright spot on the road in front of you and you can see better. You don't aim this thing down at the ground and blind yourself. Forget about night blindness from that situation. The beam is so wide that even when you look well to the side the light is there anyway.

My old Nightrider classic halogen was 32 watts on high, it's powerful. It only went about 50 minutes on high. The Nightrider HID light I own is brighter, I ride beside my old halogen Classic every single week with the present owner. The HID weighs less, is brighter and goes four (4) hours. If you think that weight does not matter on a 120 mile ride, you should try it a few times and compare different weight bikes, before you decide.

The classic was about $350 to $ 375 the last time I carefully read the price in a catalogue. The Nightrider HID was about $ 389 ish with tax it was $400. Not a lot more. I experimented with all sorts of dive lights, Flashlights, etc, I built a 50 watt halogen light for about $50, I tried everything I could think of to NOT spend $400 on a light. I spent a year experimenting. I spent over $100 learning what does not work.

My digital pro 6 Nightrider is 6 volts and 15 watts halogen on high, it is plenty bright enough for most of what I do, but it only goes about I hour 20 min. on 15 watts. It's nice and light too. It was my only light for about 7 years. In this example for this amount of ride time, I am in total agreement about what you said about 16 watts, you are correct if you do not consider the run time of the light or the size and weight of the battery. If you do consider these things everything changes.

In the middle of the summer this year I was Mountain biking a new section of the Rhode Island North South trail (places unfamiliar to us, and using maps and blazes on trees to not get lost) (much)
almost every weekend. We would ride all day and come back at 9:00 or 10:00 pm exhausted. Going fast down hills in the woods and over rough terrain requires much better vision that road riding. When one is exhausted, seeing better in the woods is safer and easier too. And A lighter bike (headlight) is less
work. The Merto is not suitable for these conditions.

When I got to the point, where I was using all the four hours on my existing light and coming home on a back up light, every single week I decided to do something. As I did my research I learned about a light that is made for the stress of professional Off road riding. The winner of the national 24 hour MTB races said it was the best money he ever spent for an improvement in his racing. Makes a lot more difference than, a $900 frame upgrade, FOR HIM in that particular circumstance. This light will go 5 hours on high and 8 hours on low. I paid $899 plus tax. I will use this once a week for at least five hours, and once a week for about a half hour home from a club ride, and most of the time one more night ride every week.
It's made my riding much safer and easier. I will more than get my money out of it at about a minimum of 175 miles a week. I have run the old Nightrider HID that frequently for three years so far. OK $400 three years.. So what? About 133 bucks a year. so what? A minimum of about 6300 miles a year.

Is this $900 light better than the Cygo for a 1 hour commute on a hybrid without much glass to run over ? NO. it's too expensive. It would be a waste. Is a guy with a $900 light for a 1 hour commute a smart cyclist? I don't think so, it seems like too much money for the light.

Will the Metro do what I like to do, No way. Is it worse? NO just different. It does what it is designed to do. Meet a price point for a certain type of riding. Would I try to sell you a $900 light for a short commute? Of course not. I would try and stop you.

Is $900 pocket change for me?.... I researched this light for well over a year and saved for it. I was petrified when I bought it. I was still a little unsure, but the on line owners reviews and actual usage by others is convincing. It was a huge decision for me, the most expensive thing I have bought in about two years. It was well worth it for me, every single penny. It fits some situations, not others. If you have not walked a mile in another mans shoes............................Or, if you have not tried it, be careful what you assume. One thing that took me a long time to lean about bicycling is, that there are so many different conditions, or variables for bikes and gear, that unless I know a lot about the intended use I can't recommend anything for someone. Every one is different, every situation is different.

I'm not smarter than you, I just was exposed to so much of this type of thing that it sunk in. It's very interesting to me so I study this stuff by a lot of reading too, just because I like it. It's my favorite pastime.

I remember when I thought any cyclist who owned an expensive bike or any expensive gear was an idiot.
It took me a decade of riding 3,000 to 7,000 miles a year, and working part time in a bike shop for a few years to realize that this is not usually the case. In nine times out of ten you get what you pay for.
It took owning 15 bikes and a lot of gear to be able to compare a lot of things side by side to see what is better for what application.

I do not think that you are out of your mind or a freak just because you think an expensive headlight is too much money. It's too bad some people say these things in forums. It's stops a meaningful exchange of information sometimes. It's ok for you to disagree with me, I don't think it's helpful to call HID light owners Freaks. Let us call ourselves freaks and out of our mind, that's a lot more fun. OK........ I'm a freak and out of my mind, just don't tell everyone OK?....please?

Here is a photo of my three year old Nightrider 10 watt HID at midnight on a bikepath.

A good comparison if someone is shopping around. Good idea.

Banging Lupine Edisons together, no way.

Selling the first born to pay for one...hmmm?

I'm thinking............................this is a tough one!

2manybikes; Let me correct you about several aspects concerning the Metro. First the Metro will run for at least 5 hours on low and at least 2.5 hours on both beams. Second, I have no trouble seeing glass on the road with the Metro, I have no trouble seeing the road or debris in pitch dark moonless nights on country roads. Third, I too have gone down hills at 35 to 38mph and was never scared about over riding the light. But keep in mind that I have excellent night vision (even for my age), and do not require the lighting that others may; this does not mean that someday I may get a brighter light, but probably the brightest I would get would be 16 to 20 watts (not HID watts). But I understand your comments 2manyB's; but I still think $900 for a light is a serious overkill for road bikes, maybe not for MTB's but I'm not sure I would want to bounce around offroad and take a chance of banging up a $900 light! But I agree the Metro is not the ticket for offroad riding, but neither is a $900 light in my humble opinion.

And another thing, I happen to like the word freak!!! Freaks describe us cyclist to the word! We all are freaky when if comes to our bikes, we got this bike or that bike, or this component or that or this or that etc, then we want the lightest part, then we want the brightest light, then we want the most aero bike, then the most expensive part, blah blah it goes on and on.

Great pics Slvoid; but here is a perfect example of too bright. The bottom photo would be way too bright for my taste, it hurts my eyes just looking at the picture! And the bottom 2 lights with the white light also appears too bright. The top photo of the 13 watt Light and Motion seems not to be adjusted at the same angle as the next 15 watt BLT so the 13 appears brighter but I doubt it. It those first two photos that I find to be most comfortable for me (I realize that these are just photos so I'm sure my opinion could change if I could see it first hand). Good job at the photos!!

Too bright eh.. well I know how some people like to brag HID this, HID that... Here it is, the 500 watt bike light:
https://home.arcor.de/schymik/Lampen/Lampeta.htm

Roughly translated from german:
Stomquelle: Generator

Shining means: 500Watt halogen emitter
Achievement of the light: 500 W
Weight of the Agregats: approx. 20 kg
Rated output: in addition, 600 W straight so 2 * 500W halogen headlight creates
Burning duration with 1 tank filling approx. 2-3h
Weight leuchte+ of the mounting plate approx. 2kg
Training effect: above average highly

I'm thinking he has a 1.1kw generator on the back and is using only 500watts of it. I suppose he can hook up a 1000watt HID bulb. 90,000 lumens of light. I think the brighest bike 16watt HID only has 900 lumens.

Good lord! Is that your battery in the trailer?

I dunno, belongs to some nut in Germany. It's an actual generator...

That's probably why they lost WW II

I paid that for my bike!

WOW.......... this setup actually makes my Lupine Edison 10 seem reasonable! I feel better already.

Now let's see..... a nuclear reactor on a BOB trailer with a steam turbine driving a generator........uh...