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-   -   Which wheels are better and why......... (https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/802611-wheels-better-why.html)

Mondo734 03-04-12 10:35 PM
Which wheels are better and why.........
 
I am looking at buying a new bike and of the four bikes I am considering these are the wheelsets that come with them. I understand the levels of the components (grouppo) but know nothing at all about wheels. Which of these wheelsets is best and why? Also any additional information about these and wheelsets in general would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
Cyclocross bikes: SBC Axis CXD, Alex Handsome Dragon 2.0
Road Bike: Easton EA-50SL, or Shimano RS10

fietsbob 03-05-12 03:08 AM
Cyclocross bikes: SBC Axis CXD, Alex Handsome Dragon 2.0
Road Bike: Easton EA-50SL, or Shimano RS10
What are their merits ? i have not seen either of them . you tell Us.
post links..

wheels are rims + spokes + the hub, and tires
newer is factory built low spoke count wheels..
but i would not use any of them myself..

Monster Pete 03-05-12 03:57 AM
Generally, the most durable, strongest wheel will be a conventional 36-spoke, 3-cross pattern.

The Great Spoke Scam: In the early '80s a clever marketeer hit upon the idea of using only 32 spokes in wheels for production bikes. Because of the association of 32 spoke wheels with exotic, high-performance bikes, the manufacturers were able to cut corners and save money while presenting it as an "upgrade!" The resulting wheels were noticeably weaker than comparable 36 spoke wheels, but held up well enough for most customers.

Since then, this practice has been carried to an extreme, with 28-, 24-, even 16-spoke wheels being offered, and presented as if they were somehow an "upgrade."

Actually, such wheels normally are not an upgrade in practice. When the spokes are farther apart on the rim, it is necessary to use a heavier rim to compensate, so there isn't usually even a weight benefit from these newer wheels!

This type of wheel requires unusually high spoke tension, since the load is carried by fewer spokes. If a spoke does break, the wheel generally becomes instantly unridable. The hub may break too; see John Allen's article.
(From Sheldon Brown-wheelbuilding)

roobydoo 03-05-12 07:37 AM
Originally Posted by Mondo734 (Post 13932110)
I am looking at buying a new bike and of the four bikes I am considering these are the wheelsets that come with them. I understand the levels of the components (grouppo) but know nothing at all about wheels. Which of these wheelsets is best and why? Also any additional information about these and wheelsets in general would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
Cyclocross bikes: SBC Axis CXD, Alex Handsome Dragon 2.0
Road Bike: Easton EA-50SL, or Shimano RS10
Most factory bikes save money on wheels. Unless you are looking at $2000+ bikes, there is no clear winner, they are all likely to just be average.
Things you may want to care about more than anything else:
Is the wheelset rated for more than your current wieght? Many are rated as low as 180lb and fail if the rider is actually that weight when used as a daily trainer..
Do you actually know what each of the wheels weigh? look for bladed, or 1.5mm spokes, -it "may" indicate a lighter wheel.
and most importantly....
Are you racing or can you pull off a century? - if not, all the above is irrelevant. Just simply worry about a strong wheel - the strongest you can afford. Most long distance (touring) bikes have more spokes to allow for bags, backpacks etc..

I would be most inclined to buy the bike with the best grouppo you can afford, and once you've ridden those wheels for many many miles.....
Then, get the best bikeshop you can find and get them to build you wheels. (A good store can easily get at least 3-4 outstanding referrals, not just a nice store)

Retro Grouch 03-05-12 08:34 AM
Before anybody can intelligently discuss "better," you have to define a purpose.

Lighter is always good. More durable is always good. Less expensive is always good. You can't have all three. The trick is finding the right balance that matches your personal needs.

I'd buy the bike based upon everything else and plan on replacing the wheels in a year or so. Ultegra or better hubs on Open Pro or CXP-33 rims with 32 spokes laced 3 cross define par. Not the lightest nor the most aero nor the most durable nor the cheapest but a good balance for typical enthusiast use.

wahoonc 03-05-12 09:30 AM
Originally Posted by Retro Grouch (Post 13933075)
Before anybody can intelligently discuss "better," you have to define a purpose.

Lighter is always good. More durable is always good. Less expensive is always good. You can't have all three. The trick is finding the right balance that matches your personal needs.

I'd buy the bike based upon everything else and plan on replacing the wheels in a year or so. Ultegra or better hubs on Open Pro or CXP-33 rims with 32 spokes laced 3 cross define par. Not the lightest nor the most aero nor the most durable nor the cheapest but a good balance for typical enthusiast use.
^^^^ This :thumb:

I don't race, all of my wheels (with a few exceptions) are 36 3x 14ga ss spokes on eyelet box section alloy rims. Cost effective and almost indestructible. Hubs vary by bike and use, some are stock steel Raleigh, best is probably a set of Deore LX. I prefer the old style loose bearing hubs over just about everything else, personal preference.

Aaron :)

MichaelW 03-05-12 09:48 AM
Differences include:
Rim section (aerodynamic deep section vs lightweight box section)
Spoke count: Fewer thicker spokes with strong /heavy rim or more, lighter-weight spokes with lighter rim.
Spoke-hub connection. Modern straight-pull spokes are more reliable than traditional bent spokes.
Bearing style. Cup and cone vs cartridge bearings.
A benchmark wheel for comparison would be a standard Shimano Ultegra/Open Pro/32 spoke. If something is lighter, more aero/better/cheaper its worth considering.
For bicycle assembly plants, it is more economical to outsourse wheelbuilding to another company and buy the whole wheel. Prebuilt wheels also have some sexy race-like characteristics like low spoke counts which adds to the bikes salebility.

BlazingPedals 03-05-12 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by roobydoo (Post 13932905)
Are you racing or can you pull off a century? - if not, all the above is irrelevant.
I disagree with this. Lower spoke counts do more than just save weight - they're faster, which is another way of saying they let you get down the road will less energy expended. You don't need to be a racer to appreciate that. For a lot of cyclists, those low-spoke-count wheels are strong enough. If you're touring, or if you're a clyde, then feel free to go ahead and get stronger wheels; just don't expect everyone else to share your priorities - racers or not.

roobydoo 03-05-12 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by BlazingPedals (Post 13934409)
I disagree with this. Lower spoke counts do more than just save weight - they're faster, which is another way of saying they let you get down the road will less energy expended. You don't need to be a racer to appreciate that. For a lot of cyclists, those low-spoke-count wheels are strong enough. If you're touring, or if you're a clyde, then feel free to go ahead and get stronger wheels; just don't expect everyone else to share your priorities - racers or not.
I can respect that, it's just that marketing in the cycling industry is targeted largely at elite atheletes. So opinion as to which wheel is better is less relevant to the enthusiast level. If it comes down to 1% less energy expended - I'd rather have the bombproof wheelset.

Now, to be clear - the lightest spokes are actually also some of the strongest, so you can have your cake and eat it too.
I find retro grouch's comments to be a usefull solution somewhat along my thought pattern.

fietsbob 03-05-12 03:15 PM
I note Paris Roubaix, they get out the 32 hole 3 cross wheels again.
[unless sponsor money has a product to prove their durability]

stapfam 03-07-12 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by BlazingPedals (Post 13934409)
I disagree with this. Lower spoke counts do more than just save weight - they're faster, which is another way of saying they let you get down the road will less energy expended. You don't need to be a racer to appreciate that. For a lot of cyclists, those low-spoke-count wheels are strong enough. If you're touring, or if you're a clyde, then feel free to go ahead and get stronger wheels; just don't expect everyone else to share your priorities - racers or not.
To an extent you do get what you pay for in wheels. Stock wheels that come with a stock bike are made to sell the bike at a price. It is one of the ways that a manufacturer can keep the price of a bike down. For this reason one of the Best upgrades you can do for most bikes is to buy better wheels. How much and what type of wheel you get is down to your wallet size and Then you run into another problem of you could get wheels that give a harsh ride- or are not suitable for the way you ride. I do use the low spoke count wheels and they are good in most conditions but can be a hit "Harsh" on certain road surfaces- or on the "Wrong" bike.

Mondo734 03-08-12 02:12 PM
ok so here are the bikes that these wheelsets are on....
1) http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...01&scname=Road

2) http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...01&scname=Road

3) http://www.performancebike.com/bikes...mount+series+8

4) http://www.performancebike.com/bikes..._1096710_-1___

I would have to say that durability and strength are most important to me since I am comming from a MTB that is super heavy all of these bikes are easily 10lbs lighter. Price isn't a concern because these are all on bikes that I already am interested in and are not an extra expense just part of the cost of the bike.

dedhed 03-08-12 07:57 PM
If you are buying this bike form a LBS, INSIST that the shop check the spoke tension before it leaves the shop and again in 100 miles or so. This will go along way toward the original wheels providing adequate service no matter what wheel it is.

Mondo734 03-09-12 01:27 AM
@Dedhed

Thanks for that tip I will definitely make sure to do that(one of the more useful comments so far).


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