Is This Acceptable To Do On A Road?
06-29-12 | 07:09 PM
#76
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From: Far beyond the pale horizon.
You might be able to argue that this thread is click-bait but that wouldn't require copyright notices.
Some people add copyright notices to every photo they own and post. Seattle Forest does it.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...n-50-mi-(pics)
Last edited by njkayaker; 06-29-12 at 07:26 PM.
06-29-12 | 07:31 PM
#77
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From: Far beyond the pale horizon.
At this point I'm going get on my soapbox and preach to the choir.
Cyclists have a right to the road. We don't need the privilege of a license to use the road. In any situation pedestrians rule <wrong: pedestrians have legal requirements like yielding to traffic>. They can do whatever they want in the road as illegal or dangerous as it may be <wrong: pedestrians have legal requirements like yielding to traffic> and it is incumbent on cyclists and motor vehicle operators to give them right of way . You cannot wantonly run them over. <wrong: you can't willfully run collide into anything>
Bikes have a right to the road that supersedes the privilege given to motor vehicles <wrong: bicyclists have no legal preference>. There are laws cyclists should obey but regardless a motor vehicle operator must yield right of way to them. <wrong: just wrong>
Just like sailboats and oil tankers. The sailboat has right of way. Oil tankers cannot wantonly run sailboats down. <wrong: no operator can willfully collided with anything. Sail boats have to keep out of the way of oil tankers and kayaks have to keep out of the way of everything else >
So what this convoluted argument means is the smaller slower guy has the right to be there but takes his well being into jeopardy if it stupidly gets in the way of the bigger faster vehicle.
Cyclists have a right to the road. We don't need the privilege of a license to use the road. In any situation pedestrians rule <wrong: pedestrians have legal requirements like yielding to traffic>. They can do whatever they want in the road as illegal or dangerous as it may be <wrong: pedestrians have legal requirements like yielding to traffic> and it is incumbent on cyclists and motor vehicle operators to give them right of way . You cannot wantonly run them over. <wrong: you can't willfully run collide into anything>
Bikes have a right to the road that supersedes the privilege given to motor vehicles <wrong: bicyclists have no legal preference>. There are laws cyclists should obey but regardless a motor vehicle operator must yield right of way to them. <wrong: just wrong>
Just like sailboats and oil tankers. The sailboat has right of way. Oil tankers cannot wantonly run sailboats down. <wrong: no operator can willfully collided with anything. Sail boats have to keep out of the way of oil tankers and kayaks have to keep out of the way of everything else >
So what this convoluted argument means is the smaller slower guy has the right to be there but takes his well being into jeopardy if it stupidly gets in the way of the bigger faster vehicle.
Note that all operators and pedestrians have to take action to avoid collisions (it's a practical requirement even if it is not a legal one). Thus, obviously, people would yield any right of way they have if doing so would avoid a collision.
The navigational rules don't use the phrase "right of way". It's either "give way" or "stand on". Both parties have the legal responsibility to take action to avoid a collision.
Last edited by njkayaker; 06-29-12 at 07:55 PM.
06-29-12 | 07:50 PM
#78
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From: Far beyond the pale horizon.
There are situations where position matters, so the upstream boat has the right of way no matter what size, but generally more maneuverable yields. As in ski boat yields to sail boat yields to ferry, yields to tanker. Just like on the road, everyone has a duty to avoid an accident, but on a huge container ship you mightn't even be able to see a sail boat from the bridge. That said, I am a rec boater and I'm sure someone with a better understanding will soon put me in my place...
I've sailed on a few rivers with a 26" sailboat. I'm pretty sure the barges coming downriver have the right of way in the channel. Possibly even the same for barges coming upriver. We always yield to them cuz we just have about 5' draft and they have much more. We don't really need the 28' deep channel water.
On my last cruise I thought for sure our gigantic cruise ship was gonna take out a sailboat in the channel @ San Diego harbor. Cap'n was REALLY laying on the horn.
The way I equate that to vehicular traffic is always yield to trains when you're on the train tracks with your truck, car or bike
On my last cruise I thought for sure our gigantic cruise ship was gonna take out a sailboat in the channel @ San Diego harbor. Cap'n was REALLY laying on the horn.
The way I equate that to vehicular traffic is always yield to trains when you're on the train tracks with your truck, car or bike
Basically, the more constrained vessel has precedence. Sailboats are a bit weird because their "engines" are external: their maneuverability is constrained because they depend on the wind (blowing in one direction at any given time).
Being slow (by itself) doesn't confer any precedence. A human-powered vessel is at the bottom of the pile.
06-29-12 | 07:53 PM
#79
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When these bicyclists cut in front of me on 54th Avenue South in Tierre Verde Florida (in Pinellas County) on 6-28-12, I was more than a little pissed. Instead of going to the light and crossing, they rode in front of me for probably 1/8 of a mile. So when bicyclists complain about motorists giving them a hard time, well.
Oh, a sailing vessel must give way to a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver.
06-29-12 | 08:11 PM
#80
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....feeling a little seasick from all this talk of boats.........................
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06-29-12 | 09:11 PM
#81
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In any situation pedestrians rule. They can do whatever they want in the road as illegal or dangerous as it may be and it is incumbent on cyclists and motor vehicle operators to give them right of way. You cannot wantonly run them over.
Bikes have a right to the road that supersedes the privilege given to motor vehicles. There are laws cyclists should obey but regardless a motor vehicle operator must yield right of way to them.
Bikes have a right to the road that supersedes the privilege given to motor vehicles. There are laws cyclists should obey but regardless a motor vehicle operator must yield right of way to them.
In Canada, pedestrians do seem to have the right of way. In Australia, they don't. In Taiwan it's every man for himself whatever mode of transportation you're using.
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06-29-12 | 09:25 PM
#82
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What do you mean pedestrians don't have the right of way in Australia? You just run them over???
06-29-12 | 09:33 PM
#83
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Pedestrians must cross the road at a designated crossing, otherwise they can be fined. And the cars will just keep coming. I'm used to being able to step out into a street (just an ordinary road in town, not a main highway or something) and have cars stop ... like they do in Canada. But even in our very small town in Australia, as a pedestrian, I had to wait for all the cars to go before I could walk across the street or risk being hit or run over or shouted at.
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06-29-12 | 09:43 PM
#84
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. . .and state, in Colorado if you jaywalk and a car hits you you're on the hook for damages to the car and a fine for the offense.
06-29-12 | 09:44 PM
#85
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I have come across signs in various towns in Australia which have specifically stated that pedestrians must give way to vehicles. This is particularly so on junctions where cars may be turning left (the equivalent of turning right in North America).
And I do have to say that having visited Taiwan, while it may appear like chaos, there is a lot of respect and patience, and almost no horn-blowing, and certainly no road rage to discern... and that compares with Australia where cyclists and pedestrians are fair game and road rage has become a favourite pastime.
So yes, there is a good chance a ped will be run over if they step out into traffic without taking due care to ensure there is a sufficient gap between vehicles to make it to the other side.
And I do have to say that having visited Taiwan, while it may appear like chaos, there is a lot of respect and patience, and almost no horn-blowing, and certainly no road rage to discern... and that compares with Australia where cyclists and pedestrians are fair game and road rage has become a favourite pastime.
So yes, there is a good chance a ped will be run over if they step out into traffic without taking due care to ensure there is a sufficient gap between vehicles to make it to the other side.
06-29-12 | 10:03 PM
#86
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Pedestrians must cross the road at a designated crossing, otherwise they can be fined. And the cars will just keep coming. I'm used to being able to step out into a street (just an ordinary road in town, not a main highway or something) and have cars stop ... like they do in Canada. But even in our very small town in Australia, as a pedestrian, I had to wait for all the cars to go before I could walk across the street or risk being hit or run over or shouted at.
I have come across signs in various towns in Australia which have specifically stated that pedestrians must give way to vehicles. This is particularly so on junctions where cars may be turning left (the equivalent of turning right in North America).
So yes, there is a good chance a ped will be run over if they step out into traffic without taking due care to ensure there is a sufficient gap between vehicles to make it to the other side.
So yes, there is a good chance a ped will be run over if they step out into traffic without taking due care to ensure there is a sufficient gap between vehicles to make it to the other side.
06-29-12 | 10:20 PM
#87
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WTF is a car lane? I see traffic lanes. Bikes are a form of traffic.
06-29-12 | 10:24 PM
#88
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"Is this acceptable to do on a road?"
Yes. Where else would you do it?
And by "it" I mean get in the left turn lane.
Yes. Where else would you do it?
And by "it" I mean get in the left turn lane.
06-30-12 | 12:13 AM
#89
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Florida Driver's Manual:
Really, go to page 31 of the pdf and start reading.
5.17 - Bicyclists
In Florida, the bicycle is legally defined as a vehicle and has all of the privileges, rights and responsibilities to utilize the roadway as a motor
vehicle operator does. Bicyclists on public roads (except for expressways) have the same rights and responsibilities as drivers of motorized
vehicles. Respect the right-of-way of bicyclists because they are entitled to share the road with other drivers.
In Florida, the bicycle is legally defined as a vehicle and has all of the privileges, rights and responsibilities to utilize the roadway as a motor
vehicle operator does. Bicyclists on public roads (except for expressways) have the same rights and responsibilities as drivers of motorized
vehicles. Respect the right-of-way of bicyclists because they are entitled to share the road with other drivers.
5.17.1 – Sharing the Road with a Bicycle
Expect to find a bicyclist on all types of roads (except interstate highways), at all intersections and roundabouts, in all types of weather, and at all times of the day and night. Bicyclists may ride out in the travel lane for their own safety due to narrow roads, or to avoid obstacles or pavement hazards, or to prepare for a left turn. On roads without shoulders, or with cars parked along the right side, often the safest place for a bicyclist to ride is in the center of the lane.
Expect to find a bicyclist on all types of roads (except interstate highways), at all intersections and roundabouts, in all types of weather, and at all times of the day and night. Bicyclists may ride out in the travel lane for their own safety due to narrow roads, or to avoid obstacles or pavement hazards, or to prepare for a left turn. On roads without shoulders, or with cars parked along the right side, often the safest place for a bicyclist to ride is in the center of the lane.
06-30-12 | 05:06 AM
#90
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06-30-12 | 05:16 AM
#91
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In reality pedestrians do have right of way in some cases. For instance I'm fairly sure the traffic code in Queensland requires a motorist to give way to pedestrians when turning left at an uncontrolled intersection. The reason for this is obviously that the pedestrians have their back to the car at that time. Nevertheless, this is a rule I would say 99% of motorists are unaware of.
06-30-12 | 05:41 AM
#92
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From: Far beyond the pale horizon.
The "right of way" doesn't mean the person with the right of way can run-over people without it.
Drivers are not "allowed" to run over anything! Drivers are required to take action to avoid collisions: with cars, trucks, and pedestrians.
06-30-12 | 06:48 AM
#93
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I guess my point is while cyclists have the right to be on the road and motorists have to try to avoid running them down you gotta use common sense.
I still get surprised at how many motorists think that they own the road exclusively. You'd think there should be some kind of education and test before they get the license.
06-30-12 | 08:40 AM
#94
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For what's it worth, I'm exclusively a paved trail biker. I know nothing about street riding and the normal procedures for many cyclists. I'm also a former 20 year motorcyclist. I quit riding in 93 because it was too dangerous on the roads. And I wanted to live longer. My misunderstanding with the thread. All the best.
06-30-12 | 09:09 AM
#95
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Ain't it grand!
I guess my point is while cyclists have the right to be on the road and motorists have to try to avoid running them down you gotta use common sense.
I still get surprised at how many motorists think that they own the road exclusively. You'd think there should be some kind of education and test before they get the license.
I guess my point is while cyclists have the right to be on the road and motorists have to try to avoid running them down you gotta use common sense.
I still get surprised at how many motorists think that they own the road exclusively. You'd think there should be some kind of education and test before they get the license.
06-30-12 | 09:34 AM
#96
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For what's it worth, I'm exclusively a paved trail biker. I know nothing about street riding and the normal procedures for many cyclists. I'm also a former 20 year motorcyclist. I quit riding in 93 because it was too dangerous on the roads. And I wanted to live longer. My misunderstanding with the thread. All the best.
That being said...dude, you obviously rely on the web to make a living. Surely you know how to use Google, Bing, or any number of search engines- why didn't you? No matter. You've been provided links to the info you needed to answer your question. I suggest you put a link to the FL laws regarding cyclists on the road on your website- just in case you actually get someone to come to FL to ride your trails that also wants to ride on the street.
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06-30-12 | 09:36 AM
#97
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For what's it worth, I'm exclusively a paved trail biker. I know nothing about street riding and the normal procedures for many cyclists. I'm also a former 20 year motorcyclist. I quit riding in 93 because it was too dangerous on the roads. And I wanted to live longer. My misunderstanding with the thread. All the best.
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07-01-12 | 02:27 PM
#98
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e.g., https://www.flickr.com/photos/jputnam/7470043152/
Last edited by jputnam; 07-01-12 at 02:45 PM.
07-01-12 | 02:52 PM
#99
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So what? What makes that trollish?
You might be able to argue that this thread is click-bait but that wouldn't require copyright notices.
Some people add copyright notices to every photo they own and post. Seattle Forest does it.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/826385-I-rode-out-of-the-mountains-and-into-the-desert-3-000-ft-in-50-mi-(pics)
You might be able to argue that this thread is click-bait but that wouldn't require copyright notices.
Some people add copyright notices to every photo they own and post. Seattle Forest does it.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/826385-I-rode-out-of-the-mountains-and-into-the-desert-3-000-ft-in-50-mi-(pics)
The whole copyright thing is a red herring -- who copyrights pictures they plan to post on line? EVERYONE -- copyright is automatic the moment the picture is created, whether you choose to add a copyright notice or not.
It could be the OP regularly shoots for commercial purposes and has the notice applied automatically.
These could actually be marketable pictures, they clearly illustrate proper lane usage by a group of cyclists at a left-turn lane -- not just the fact that they're using the left turn lane, but that they're properly spread out to prevent an inattentive or ignorant motorist from attempting to pass them within the lane.
