Why is seat length given in the specs?
08-17-14 | 08:04 AM
#1
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From: Okefenokee Swamps.
Bikes: Rockhopper, Azor Oma cruiser
Why is seat length given in the specs?
I'm looking to replace my Brooks B17 as it's too wide for me (male, 60 y.o. @ 230#). I'm looking at the Brooks narrower saddles as well as the Berthoud saddles. Comments appreciated and yes, I've tried all alternative seat and seat post positions and the Brooks isn't working for me even though it's got at least a thousand miles on it. I'm just wondering though why length is specified.
TIA
TIA
Last edited by tjkoko; 08-18-14 at 05:01 PM.
08-17-14 | 11:44 AM
#2
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From: CID
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
I can't figure out how the thread title applies to the contents 
, but I too found that the regular B17 (actually a B17S in this case) was a little too wide after 1000 miles or so -- it was *almost* right. The Pro was a little too rounded on top for my taste, but a B17 Narrow was perfect. 
, but I too found that the regular B17 (actually a B17S in this case) was a little too wide after 1000 miles or so -- it was *almost* right. The Pro was a little too rounded on top for my taste, but a B17 Narrow was perfect.
08-18-14 | 03:14 PM
#4
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Joined: May 2013
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From: Pacific Northwest
Bikes: ‘87 Marinoni SLX Sports Tourer, ‘79 Miyata 912 by Gugificazione
My Gilles Berthoud Aravis (touring width with titanium rails) is fantastic! I would buy another one in a moment, despite the price.
It is similar in overall shape and width to the Brooks B17, but doesn't require as much nose-up tilt to feel "planted". I've heard that same comment from others, and that it doesn't seem to be as sensitive to bar height. My bars are 3cm below the saddle on that bike, but I've also had the bars higher and lower with no change in comfort, unlike my experience with various Brooks. FWIW, I have a B17 Champion Special (thicker leather, titanium rails, about 10 years old) on another bike, and while I've always liked its comfort, the perineal pressure caused me to have it slotted after a few years. No pressure issues at all with the Berthoud.
The skirt shape is such that it doesn't rub my thighs, which was a problem for me on one side of a Selle An-Atomica, and it's there but not to a problem level on my modified B17. Is the width problem with a B17 in the nose area? That's been an issue with many saddles for me, and why I had liked the Team Pro (and disliked the SAA). The GB gets it right there. Also, the cantle plate (curved support under the rear of the saddle) is designed so that you're not sitting on the attachment screws (rivets in a Brooks), which is my complaint with a Brooks Team Pro.
The Berthoud leather is a millimeter thicker than any of the several Brooks I've owned including a 35-year old thick-skinned Team Pro, and it did take 300-500 miles to break in. But it was never uncomfortable during that time, and now has almost 2000 miles with no adjustments to the tension in the year I've had it. It was treated with GB's leather treatment when new. Took the leather off (easy!) to do the underside thoroughly, which I'll probably repeat yearly. My Natural colored Aravis is gradually darkening to a deep brown, just like my Honey B17. I have heard that the Black and Cork finishes will also change.
The GB saddles have the same short rail adjustment span as Brooks, so you whatever seatpost worked for the B17 will work here and a two-bolt "micro adjust" seatpost will help to find the perfect tilt, just like a Brooks or any other saddle IMHO.
Note that that there is a narrower version.
Both Wallbikes and Rene Herse offer 6-month money back guarantees on GB or Brooks saddles.
Berthoud saddles | wallbike.com
New Page 1
Here are some other discussions about Berthoud saddles:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...d-saddles.html
Rando Richard | Saddle Quest?Part II
Gilles Berthoud Saddles
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!...ch/DarMZOShnMw
No, I receive no compensation from Gilles Berthoud, but I obviously like this product of his.
It is similar in overall shape and width to the Brooks B17, but doesn't require as much nose-up tilt to feel "planted". I've heard that same comment from others, and that it doesn't seem to be as sensitive to bar height. My bars are 3cm below the saddle on that bike, but I've also had the bars higher and lower with no change in comfort, unlike my experience with various Brooks. FWIW, I have a B17 Champion Special (thicker leather, titanium rails, about 10 years old) on another bike, and while I've always liked its comfort, the perineal pressure caused me to have it slotted after a few years. No pressure issues at all with the Berthoud.
The skirt shape is such that it doesn't rub my thighs, which was a problem for me on one side of a Selle An-Atomica, and it's there but not to a problem level on my modified B17. Is the width problem with a B17 in the nose area? That's been an issue with many saddles for me, and why I had liked the Team Pro (and disliked the SAA). The GB gets it right there. Also, the cantle plate (curved support under the rear of the saddle) is designed so that you're not sitting on the attachment screws (rivets in a Brooks), which is my complaint with a Brooks Team Pro.
The Berthoud leather is a millimeter thicker than any of the several Brooks I've owned including a 35-year old thick-skinned Team Pro, and it did take 300-500 miles to break in. But it was never uncomfortable during that time, and now has almost 2000 miles with no adjustments to the tension in the year I've had it. It was treated with GB's leather treatment when new. Took the leather off (easy!) to do the underside thoroughly, which I'll probably repeat yearly. My Natural colored Aravis is gradually darkening to a deep brown, just like my Honey B17. I have heard that the Black and Cork finishes will also change.
The GB saddles have the same short rail adjustment span as Brooks, so you whatever seatpost worked for the B17 will work here and a two-bolt "micro adjust" seatpost will help to find the perfect tilt, just like a Brooks or any other saddle IMHO.
Note that that there is a narrower version.
Both Wallbikes and Rene Herse offer 6-month money back guarantees on GB or Brooks saddles.
Berthoud saddles | wallbike.com
New Page 1
Here are some other discussions about Berthoud saddles:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...d-saddles.html
Rando Richard | Saddle Quest?Part II
Gilles Berthoud Saddles
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!...ch/DarMZOShnMw
No, I receive no compensation from Gilles Berthoud, but I obviously like this product of his.
08-18-14 | 05:03 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 577
Likes: 2
From: Okefenokee Swamps.
Bikes: Rockhopper, Azor Oma cruiser
My Gilles Berthoud Aravis (touring width with titanium rails) is fantastic! I would buy another one in a moment, despite the price.
It is similar in overall shape and width to the Brooks B17, but doesn't require as much nose-up tilt to feel "planted". I've heard that same comment from others, and that it doesn't seem to be as sensitive to bar height. My bars are 3cm below the saddle on that bike, but I've also had the bars higher and lower with no change in comfort, unlike my experience with various Brooks. FWIW, I have a B17 Champion Special (thicker leather, titanium rails, about 10 years old) on another bike, and while I've always liked its comfort, the perineal pressure caused me to have it slotted after a few years. No pressure issues at all with the Berthoud.
The skirt shape is such that it doesn't rub my thighs, which was a problem for me on one side of a Selle An-Atomica, and it's there but not to a problem level on my modified B17. Is the width problem with a B17 in the nose area? That's been an issue with many saddles for me, and why I had liked the Team Pro (and disliked the SAA). The GB gets it right there. Also, the cantle plate (curved support under the rear of the saddle) is designed so that you're not sitting on the attachment screws (rivets in a Brooks), which is my complaint with a Brooks Team Pro.
The Berthoud leather is a millimeter thicker than any of the several Brooks I've owned including a 35-year old thick-skinned Team Pro, and it did take 300-500 miles to break in. But it was never uncomfortable during that time, and now has almost 2000 miles with no adjustments to the tension in the year I've had it. It was treated with GB's leather treatment when new. Took the leather off (easy!) to do the underside thoroughly, which I'll probably repeat yearly. My Natural colored Aravis is gradually darkening to a deep brown, just like my Honey B17. I have heard that the Black and Cork finishes will also change.
The GB saddles have the same short rail adjustment span as Brooks, so you whatever seatpost worked for the B17 will work here and a two-bolt "micro adjust" seatpost will help to find the perfect tilt, just like a Brooks or any other saddle IMHO.
Note that that there is a narrower version.
Both Wallbikes and Rene Herse offer 6-month money back guarantees on GB or Brooks saddles.
Berthoud saddles | wallbike.com
New Page 1
Here are some other discussions about Berthoud saddles:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...d-saddles.html
Rando Richard | Saddle Quest?Part II
Gilles Berthoud Saddles
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!...ch/DarMZOShnMw
No, I receive no compensation from Gilles Berthoud, but I obviously like this product of his.
It is similar in overall shape and width to the Brooks B17, but doesn't require as much nose-up tilt to feel "planted". I've heard that same comment from others, and that it doesn't seem to be as sensitive to bar height. My bars are 3cm below the saddle on that bike, but I've also had the bars higher and lower with no change in comfort, unlike my experience with various Brooks. FWIW, I have a B17 Champion Special (thicker leather, titanium rails, about 10 years old) on another bike, and while I've always liked its comfort, the perineal pressure caused me to have it slotted after a few years. No pressure issues at all with the Berthoud.
The skirt shape is such that it doesn't rub my thighs, which was a problem for me on one side of a Selle An-Atomica, and it's there but not to a problem level on my modified B17. Is the width problem with a B17 in the nose area? That's been an issue with many saddles for me, and why I had liked the Team Pro (and disliked the SAA). The GB gets it right there. Also, the cantle plate (curved support under the rear of the saddle) is designed so that you're not sitting on the attachment screws (rivets in a Brooks), which is my complaint with a Brooks Team Pro.
The Berthoud leather is a millimeter thicker than any of the several Brooks I've owned including a 35-year old thick-skinned Team Pro, and it did take 300-500 miles to break in. But it was never uncomfortable during that time, and now has almost 2000 miles with no adjustments to the tension in the year I've had it. It was treated with GB's leather treatment when new. Took the leather off (easy!) to do the underside thoroughly, which I'll probably repeat yearly. My Natural colored Aravis is gradually darkening to a deep brown, just like my Honey B17. I have heard that the Black and Cork finishes will also change.
The GB saddles have the same short rail adjustment span as Brooks, so you whatever seatpost worked for the B17 will work here and a two-bolt "micro adjust" seatpost will help to find the perfect tilt, just like a Brooks or any other saddle IMHO.
Note that that there is a narrower version.
Both Wallbikes and Rene Herse offer 6-month money back guarantees on GB or Brooks saddles.
Berthoud saddles | wallbike.com
New Page 1
Here are some other discussions about Berthoud saddles:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...d-saddles.html
Rando Richard | Saddle Quest?Part II
Gilles Berthoud Saddles
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!...ch/DarMZOShnMw
No, I receive no compensation from Gilles Berthoud, but I obviously like this product of his.
08-18-14 | 05:03 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 577
Likes: 2
From: Okefenokee Swamps.
Bikes: Rockhopper, Azor Oma cruiser
I can't figure out how the thread title applies to the contents , but I too found that the regular B17 (actually a B17S in this case) was a little too wide after 1000 miles or so -- it was *almost* right. The Pro was a little too rounded on top for my taste, but a B17 Narrow was perfect.
, but I too found that the regular B17 (actually a B17S in this case) was a little too wide after 1000 miles or so -- it was *almost* right. The Pro was a little too rounded on top for my taste, but a B17 Narrow was perfect.
08-18-14 | 05:08 PM
#7
Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2012
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From: Okefenokee Swamps.
Bikes: Rockhopper, Azor Oma cruiser
And may I state that there were a couple of posts following my OP from someone insinuating that my OP was a troll-type inquiry. And then there's that thread entitled Why is bicycling culture so snobby?!?!?!?!?!??!?!? Hmmmmm.
Again thanks both of you for the information.
Again thanks both of you for the information.
08-18-14 | 05:16 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 577
Likes: 2
From: Okefenokee Swamps.
Bikes: Rockhopper, Azor Oma cruiser
My Gilles Berthoud Aravis (touring width with titanium rails) is fantastic! I would buy another one in a moment, despite the price.
It is similar in overall shape and width to the Brooks B17, but doesn't require as much nose-up tilt to feel "planted". I've heard that same comment from others, and that it doesn't seem to be as sensitive to bar height. My bars are 3cm below the saddle on that bike, but I've also had the bars higher and lower with no change in comfort, unlike my experience with various Brooks. FWIW, I have a B17 Champion Special (thicker leather, titanium rails, about 10 years old) on another bike, and while I've always liked its comfort, the perineal pressure caused me to have it slotted after a few years. No pressure issues at all with the Berthoud.
The skirt shape is such that it doesn't rub my thighs, which was a problem for me on one side of a Selle An-Atomica, and it's there but not to a problem level on my modified B17. Is the width problem with a B17 in the nose area? That's been an issue with many saddles for me, and why I had liked the Team Pro (and disliked the SAA). The GB gets it right there. Also, the cantle plate (curved support under the rear of the saddle) is designed so that you're not sitting on the attachment screws (rivets in a Brooks), which is my complaint with a Brooks Team Pro.
It is similar in overall shape and width to the Brooks B17, but doesn't require as much nose-up tilt to feel "planted". I've heard that same comment from others, and that it doesn't seem to be as sensitive to bar height. My bars are 3cm below the saddle on that bike, but I've also had the bars higher and lower with no change in comfort, unlike my experience with various Brooks. FWIW, I have a B17 Champion Special (thicker leather, titanium rails, about 10 years old) on another bike, and while I've always liked its comfort, the perineal pressure caused me to have it slotted after a few years. No pressure issues at all with the Berthoud.
The skirt shape is such that it doesn't rub my thighs, which was a problem for me on one side of a Selle An-Atomica, and it's there but not to a problem level on my modified B17. Is the width problem with a B17 in the nose area? That's been an issue with many saddles for me, and why I had liked the Team Pro (and disliked the SAA). The GB gets it right there. Also, the cantle plate (curved support under the rear of the saddle) is designed so that you're not sitting on the attachment screws (rivets in a Brooks), which is my complaint with a Brooks Team Pro.
Back in '71-2 I rode a Peugeot U08 having an Ideale saddle and it felt comfortable from the get-go. Then, I was 18 years old weighing 170 pounds and now I'm 60 years old weighing 230 pounds. My brooks B17 with a thousand miles has yet to feel comfortable at all, way too wide and not even close to the Ideale saddle. And it feels like the B17 has a dip in the middle that is too deep when compared to the Ideale and therefore fails to provide support in the "midregion".
08-18-14 | 05:20 PM
#9
I think people were simply unable to guess how your thread title related to your original post. My best guess, and it's only a guess, is that you meant something like the following: why is seat length, which is nearly irrelevant with respect to predicting the likely suitability of the saddle, given in the specs when width would be a more useful dimension?
08-18-14 | 05:28 PM
#10
Here's my spiel:
Back in '71-2 I rode a Peugeot U08 having an Ideale saddle and it felt comfortable from the get-go. Then, I was 18 years old weighing 170 pounds and now I'm 60 years old weighing 230 pounds. My brooks B17 with a thousand miles has yet to feel comfortable at all, way too wide and not even close to the Ideale saddle. And it feels like the B17 has a dip in the middle that is too deep when compared to the Ideale and therefore fails to provide support in the "midregion".
Back in '71-2 I rode a Peugeot U08 having an Ideale saddle and it felt comfortable from the get-go. Then, I was 18 years old weighing 170 pounds and now I'm 60 years old weighing 230 pounds. My brooks B17 with a thousand miles has yet to feel comfortable at all, way too wide and not even close to the Ideale saddle. And it feels like the B17 has a dip in the middle that is too deep when compared to the Ideale and therefore fails to provide support in the "midregion".
08-19-14 | 05:58 PM
#11
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From: Okefenokee Swamps.
Bikes: Rockhopper, Azor Oma cruiser
It's treated with proofhide about once every twelve to sixteen months and the saddle never ever provided support at the midregion from the beginning.
08-19-14 | 06:05 PM
#12
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 577
Likes: 2
From: Okefenokee Swamps.
Bikes: Rockhopper, Azor Oma cruiser
Someone mentioned preferring the Swift or Swallow to the B17.
I really can't see much difference in the dimensions between the Swift, Swallow and the B17N although the latter offers a long skirt. Take a look at the following dimensions from the Brooks website.
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]MODEL
[/TD]
[TD]WIDTH
[/TD]
[TD]LENGTH
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B17
[/TD]
[TD]175
[/TD]
[TD]275
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B17 Narrow
[/TD]
[TD]151
[/TD]
[TD]279
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B17 Narrow Imperial
[/TD]
[TD]151
[/TD]
[TD]279
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Team Pro Chrome
[/TD]
[TD]160
[/TD]
[TD]273
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Flyer Select
[/TD]
[TD]175
[/TD]
[TD]275
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B67
[/TD]
[TD]205
[/TD]
[TD]260
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B72
[/TD]
[TD]209
[/TD]
[TD]262
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B15 Swallow Chrome
[/TD]
[TD]153
[/TD]
[TD]285
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Swift Chrome
[/TD]
[TD]150
[/TD]
[TD]272
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I really can't see much difference in the dimensions between the Swift, Swallow and the B17N although the latter offers a long skirt. Take a look at the following dimensions from the Brooks website.
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]MODEL
[/TD]
[TD]WIDTH
[/TD]
[TD]LENGTH
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B17
[/TD]
[TD]175
[/TD]
[TD]275
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B17 Narrow
[/TD]
[TD]151
[/TD]
[TD]279
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B17 Narrow Imperial
[/TD]
[TD]151
[/TD]
[TD]279
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Team Pro Chrome
[/TD]
[TD]160
[/TD]
[TD]273
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Flyer Select
[/TD]
[TD]175
[/TD]
[TD]275
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B67
[/TD]
[TD]205
[/TD]
[TD]260
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B72
[/TD]
[TD]209
[/TD]
[TD]262
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]B15 Swallow Chrome
[/TD]
[TD]153
[/TD]
[TD]285
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Swift Chrome
[/TD]
[TD]150
[/TD]
[TD]272
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
08-21-14 | 09:56 AM
#13
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 990
Likes: 58
From: Michigan
Bikes: Many
Why not? I would always rather more info than less on a manufacturers site. I've not usually had a problem with saddles in general being uncomfortable if positioned correctly but maybe some folks prefer a longer or shorter saddle for some reason?
08-29-14 | 11:04 AM
#14
Thread Starter
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 577
Likes: 2
From: Okefenokee Swamps.
Bikes: Rockhopper, Azor Oma cruiser
Well, I just purchased a Terry Ti, used, at ebay for $61 delivered and we'll see how it works. It's a much narrower saddle without all of the huge cost to me and for less than a hundred it'll be worth trying out.
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