Heck, the first time I checked out A&S I actually thought it was going to be full of advocacy and safety. It's kind of like visiting a flea market for the first time and not finding any fleas.

Once again I'm glad to live in the mid west not California

I'm guessing that A&S stands for A-holes and Sh*theads?

This thread sucks now.

I do not live anywhere near said hill but I looked it up on Google Earth and i find it very, very hard to believe that anybody would blow that bottom stop sign with that tall thick building blocking their view. Is N 1st Ave. not very busy?

So, you're agreeing that there's not reason for the bikes to be rolling through there?

Absolutely, I just find it hard to believe that people would blow the stop sign when they are so blind to oncoming traffic.

Usually the only traffic thru there are police cars or people who were parked down by the river. Not much vehicular traffic there at all. More pedestrian traffic on nice weekends than anything else.

I grew up in a dead flat beach town. I have been bagged like six times by auto's making rights into driveways or stores not realizing that bicycle they just passed is going fast! I can tell you true, doors are easy, nicked a bumper once, scary stuff. Head ON! you're smoked. If your riding buddies think blowing Stops and Reds is cool, ride them over to the local trauma center.

Great, now we're getting advice from a guy who keeps putting himself into positions to get right hooked. Six times?!

Are you feeling sick? You made a whole post and didn't tell anybody what they "should" do.

I'm still patiently waiting for you to direct us to something (other than your opinion) which supports what you said about pedestrians and the right-of-way. Could you make that a top priority, please?

Love,

MJH2.

fwiw, in the Netherlands cyclists have priority. Hit a cyclist and you're in trouble. You'll see folks riding around with no lights on 50 year old clunkers with wooden rims at all hours with no worries. A large proportion of journeys (well over 20%) are taken by bike.

What it means is that drivers have to be extra vigilant. The burden is on them to prove that they were not at fault. Don't know if it's like this in any other countries.

That said, I take stop signs very seriously. I value my life quite highly these days.

Right. The issue here wasn't even one of car/bike until the West Coast stepped in. It's one of traffic control devices. Even if Kimbercop were on a bike, there is still a HIGH probability of collisions in that intersection caused by the number of cyclists who bomb down the hill, blow through 2 stop signs, and then swing wide while making a right turn to cut through the parking lot. Even if the world were free of cars, that stop sign would still be there to protect the people headed north and south along 1st.

I've already told you that if you want to have that kind of conversation, have it with someone else. My opinions are just that. And as Mark Twain would say, "I am not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts."

Whether pedestrians have strict legal right of way in the ways i've implied or not, is somewhat beside the point anyway: surely any sane person would yield right of way to those wishing to walk across the road. what i'm speaking of is the situation described above about the Netherlands and the one i've lived with in Japan: cars are considered "at fault" when hitting bicyclists or pedestrians and therefore drivers exercise greater care than americans do while driving, and yield "right of way" to pedestrians and cyclists. These two countries are great examples actually, because one has great bike infrastructure and the other has next to no bike infrastructure (at least in tokyo area where much of the population lives). And yet both are cycling paradises compared to the usa when it comes to transportation cycling.

As i've stated, I already take this approach myself. If I were the OP, I wouldn't be ranting about hating cyclists! I'd be thinking to myself, "Cool, here come some guys on bikes, I'll sit here safely out of the way and let them come on through and make their turn - yes, without stopping - and carry on their merry way." I mean, come on. What hurry am I in while I'm sitting on my ass in a car? If I'm not on a call, I've got the time to let any and all cyclists and pedestrians (and the odd equestrian) go where ever they want in front of me.

That's a blind corner too, and when I'm doing the speed limit or less and they come across my bow because they're carrying too much speed thru the stop sign and cant make the turn, then its their fault, plain and simple.

Dude, get a grip. Did you even read the OP? It's not about patience from drivers or cops, it's about goofballs who put themselves at risk because they don't have the bike handling skills or respect for other users of the road to keep themselves out of harm's way. Geesh.

+1

No kidding.

Now we can finally get somewhere.

Opinions are great. If people didn't have them, the internet would be a lot less entertaining.

The difference between your opinion and that of many others posting in this thread is that you like to use your opinion to tell us what we "should" do. As though you're some sort of authority. Sadly, you'll never be able to convince evenly a moderately sympathetic audience (like, for example, us) of how to go from "here" (what is currently reality) to "there" (what your worldview desires) when your opinion of "here" does not even attempt to reflect actual reality.

And I used the pedestrian example as only one case in which you've told us what we "should" do based on what YOU have said already "is". You've done that several times but, at least now, you've been "big" enough to indirectly admit (though Mark Twain, as though that means something) that you don't really care about factual reality.

You come off like an uninformed loon with no interest in founding your opinion in reality and, consequently, will never be able to adequately deliver your message to those who most need to change.

Like I said, I think we all agree things could be better for cyclists. Suggesting that the original poster is somehow in the wrong and telling the rest of what we should do is not helping anything, though.

With that, I quit this thread.

+1

definitely from the "Left Coast".