rockmom

I always feel obligated to post about car free with babies/kids since the husband and I actually did it/are doing it. They are teenagers now and we are still car free. We've had flexible schedules so we mostly just avoided overlap when they were little. When it rarely happened, there was a relative with whom we swapped child care, in which case one parent would walk/bus the child to the sitter and the other parent would pick the child up couple hours later.

Our usual routine involved my husband meeting me as I finished work, handing me the kids, spending about 15 minutes giving me the low down on how the day was going, then heading off to work himself. I'd spend a little time with the kids at the library, then take them home on the bus. We didn't see a whole lot of each other on work days.

You could probably make it work, but only if both parties are on board. That pretty much sums up marriage in general.

Walter S

I raised a daughter here in Atlanta and rode my bicycle behind her own as early as first grade. We traveled on routes I carefully defined in advance. I didn't "carry" her on my own bicycle. But I can see how some people might think that would be safer. The roads you travel on make a big difference.

She turned out fine and is going into her 30s after surviving.

Walter S

Thanks rockmom. Comments from actual parents are invaluable.

tandempower

Ironically, children once had to walk or bike everywhere because dad was off working and mom had things to do at home. Then, we got lots of appliances and services that reduced the time needed for household chores so moms became taxi drivers instead (strangely without backlash from the taxi unionists). Imagine if we had a culture that didn't replace one waste of time with another when some technology made things more efficient.

Walter S

That was before cable tv really took off and people got 24 hour news about how dangerous the world is especially for their children who shouldn't be allowed to roam on their own.

ypsetihw

dude, once that kid arrives you are gonna have literally so much more crap to worry about than this. lol. my son is 11 months old . . . times are a changin my friend. I'd say get ready, but you won't ever be ready. get a car, but believe me, it'll be the least of the things that changes in your life.

I-Like-To-Bike

Or alternatively he can take the advice of LCF posters who in essence tell him to ignore his wife's concern; place the highest priority on his yearning for living the LCF "lifestyle", and add a very big change to his living and family arrangement.

tandempower

Much of the child abuse that goes on occurs while the children are supervised, often by adults involved in the supervision. Check out Barry Glassner's Culture of Fear book. It's old but the essential message is timeless, that fear generates sales and that's why it is pushed on us by the media and other channels. I'm not saying there are no threats because there are plenty everywhere, but I am saying that we haven't done enough to stand up to it so that we and our children can roam freely, as we and this world were designed for.

True, but it doesn't mean you can't make car-free living a goal. When my son was a baby, we had a single-car family and I biked to work, pulled a bike trailer, toted him around in a rear-mount child seat, and eventually moved up to a trailer bike and finally a tandem.

Everyone's situation is different but it's sad the way some people give only discouragement on an LCF forum. People should be aware there are risks, but who isn't aware of those? If anything, everyone else they talk to about raising kids car-free is going to discourage them so a forum like this one should provide some encouragement.

Walter S

As a person living car free and enjoying it, I get some pleasure when another person joins our ranks. But this subforum should be a place for more than just getting sunshine blown up your crack. Some viewpoints will be negative and some not. It should reflect the way people actually feel about the issue at hand, not just support in favor of LCF regardless.

I-Like-To-Bike

Walter S. you bring up an interesting point. On the P&R list people post all sorts of provocative and controversial opinions, but I don't believe any of the posters expect their viewpoints to go unchallenged, or whine and complain to the mods or anyone else about mean people showing "lack of support" for their position.

On several of the lists which I follow, it seems more and more frequent for some posters to insist that the conventional (or unconventional) wisdom (i.e. their opinion) that they post on bicycling equipment, technique, safety, health, or any other subject, however provocative and controversial the content, must be accepted as a given, true and not to be questioned and any response that does not support such "wisdom" is considered an insult to the wisdom poster.

rockmom

Well, I suppose fathers could have picked up the slack a bit more. From discussions among my fellow moms, a lot of men are still seriously slacking in terms of housework and child care whether the mom works nor not. It's pretty damn common for men to maintain their hobbies after kids, while mom's new hobby is getting to go the grocery store on her own.

A suburban neighborhood full of at home moms also means that the kids were being supervised because there was always a responsible adult near by. Middle class neighborhoods are pretty empty during the day now. I think that the idea that kids walked and biked everywhere is also pretty overblown. While both my husband and I walked to elementary school, we bused or were driven to junior and senior high school because they were not close to home. And we were driven to extracurricular activities that didn't take place at the school.

I-Like-To-Bike

Driven by whom?

FBinNY 

I don't consider being car free a digital thing, as in you are or you aren't. Of course ohers will say otherwise, but unless you're looking for bragging rights or to meet some PC goal, it's simple a matter of managing your life with as little car use as possible.

Even with your pregnant wife, or later on working mother, you should be able to arrange to live with a single car. OTOH - timing consideration, travel distance and time might force you to buy a second car. But owning cars isn't the issue, it's driving them, so you can own cars but relegate them to only situational use.

For my part, I believe that simply having a car increases the likelihood that you'll drive more, so you'll need to use some willpower to resist the convenience driving might offer.

Don't fret over labels, just do whatever works out best for you and your family, with a bias to not driving as much as possible or practical.

Walter S

You're right. It's not The Issue. But that doesn't mean it's not An Issue.

Owning cars requires building cars and fewer of those is better and more sustainable for the environment, regardless of whether or not you can comfortably afford it.

Don't get me wrong - of course driving less is better. But it's not like the only impact on the environment is the operation alone. So having one car is in fact better than having two regardless of how much you operate it. All that goes into the manufacture has an ugly impact on nature and our resources.

Walter S

I'm curious which decade you mean? I grew up in the south in the '60s. Both parents worked in my case. But even for stay at home moms they weren't holding the reins on us kids too tight. We had free run of the whole town and woods around it.

Nobody was driving us around. Adults weren't a major factor for much of the night or weekend. So different than the world now. I'm sure that's good in some ways but it seems like a loss to me. I'm glad I grew up like I did. It was fun and I was a lot more capable when I left home than the kids I see today that are controlled a lot more from a young age.

burnfatburn

me and my wife travelling with motorcycles daily. Now I am trying to use bicycle as much as I can, I already built my cargo bike and I took my son to school several time. But my wife get pregnant and we borrow my sister car until the delivery.

heywood

It's really hard to be car free in a car centric country so I wouldn't sweat it.. Just do what works and like many have said here safety first.. I don't ride during the icy months (about 2) but that's okay, 10 months of car free biking is still great.. I always rent a car for longer distances or have to do a big costco run (maybe once a month)..that's due to close to 100 years of civic planning around the automobile, which sucks but it's getting better..Cities are a million times better for cycling now than when i was a kid, and it's funny that many suburbs around me are looking like weird 1970's throwbacks.. but with lots of poor people.

FBinNY 

I agree with you to an extent, but I think you missed the point of my post. IMO half a loaf is better than none, and if car free doesn't work for someone, but car lite does, that's progress. In any case the OP, an any of us are only answerable to the guy in the mirror.

BTW- you and I have a different agenda regarding car free (or car lite). From your post, I infer that you're focused on environmental considerations. I went car free for political reasons. On July 4th, some years back I decided to celebrate by declaring independence from OPEC, and stop sending dough to people who use it to fund terrorism.

Ekdog

Is there a rule that states we can only be carfree for one reason at a time?

FBinNY 

Of course not, unless the guy in the mirror insists.

BTW - the opening sentence in the post which you partly quoted should have made it clear that I'm not a car free fundamentalist. IME some are care free by choice, and others by lack of choice. Neither owes anybody an explanation or justification. For those who choose to cut down or cut out car use, it's a choice they modify or rescind at any time without apology (except maybe to the guy in the mirror).

Roody

One thing I've noticed is that you are much grumpier since you got a car!

As for the OP, he didn't mention (IIRC) whether he lives in a bad place for cycling, other than that he doesn't much like the weather. I'm sure that he will make responsible choices regarding the welfare of his children, no matter what you or I say.

AFAIK, there's no objective evidence about which form of transportation is "safer" for a young child or infant, so people just have to get as much information as they can and make up their own minds.

To tell the truth, public transit is usually the "safest" mode as far as injuries/fatalities per mile or per trip. But does that mean that it's irresponsible or "unsafe" to take a kid in a car or on a bike?

Walter S

No, I got your post. Did you get mine? The paragraph after the opening that you quoted starts with "Don't get me wrong - of course driving less is better...". Did you read that or did you stop and quote?

Of course. My post does not mention going car free. It only discusses the merits of having one car instead of two. Does that seem radical to you?

No, we don't have different agendas at all. I just apparently have more of them. I'm car free for many reasons

Walter S

I agree. Maybe you're the enemy now. Starting with "You are clueless" is usually not going to lead to a meeting of the minds

Ekdog

That makes two of us.

I-Like-To-Bike

"Enemy"? Do you mean the enemy of the LCF-style Groupthinkers' preference for gathering around the campfire for a hug and "support"?