Here's my two cents: people who've managed to move a couch with their cargo bike, or regularly cycle to work in -20F weather, or really anything else that seems extreme to the uninitiated, like to talk about. That's understandable, people want to feel good about what they've done, but it can still be discouraging to people not on that level (yet.) But other times it's actively confrontational, which I think is super counter-productive. Most real lifestyle changes are made incrementally, and that means starting with the easy stuff. But when people hear "give up your car! Stop being addicted to automobiles, sheeple!" the first thing most people think of is trips that are most difficult to do without a car, and they get defensive. Instead of insisting they stop driving at all right now, point out how so many of those car trips could be easily replaced by bike, before they even have to touch the difficult stuff.

I get it, people who've "made it" want to emphasize the really impressive things they're doing, but people who are just starting out ought be focussing on the easy things they could be doing. Like, how much of your transportation doesn't require hauling more than a backpack's worth? Try doing that stuff by bike. How many days out of the year where you live is the weather dry between 40F and 80F? Try biking to work on those days. You live at the top of a really big hill? Bike to work and take the bus back! (if possible) When people get started with that stuff, it's easy to expand later.

There should be a place for bragging about how hardcore you are, but it shouldn't get mixed up with alternative transportation activism. If the point of what you're saying is supposedly to get people to change their habits, try saying stuff that's more likely to actually work, rather than what makes you feel good.

I'm glad you said, "yet." I can remember a time when I was wondering how fast I could eventually commute if stuck with it everyday. I was used to commuting @2 miles at @10mph and I got another job that was @7 miles before again moving so that the job was @10 miles from home. I remember getting a cyclocomputer and racing against the average speed I had achieved up to that point. I even invented an imaginary pace-setter I called, "four-minute miles" to motivate myself to stay over 15mph.

I expected to eventually average 20mph on short commutes and over 15mph on multi-hour trips, but that never panned out. It just turns out I'm not the athlete I hoped to become. Still, it helped me to be able to communicate with faster cyclists online who could give me an idea of what kind of speeds are possible. Even though I never achieved those speeds, I think it encouraged me to work toward them that others had and posted about it.

If the achievements of others discourage you instead of inspiring you, it might be because you are in an ego-reactive state when you read them. It's common for people in such a state to view the successes of others negatively. In fact, there is a whole culture that has evolved around (wrongly) blaming successful people for being the cause of discouragement of those less successful. In reality it is the latter who are being egoistic/prideful, and they should really let go of their pride and just do their best without fretting about not measuring up to others, however difficult that may be.

I can't speak for others, but I am never trying to ridicule anyone who is sincerely invested in LCF. The fact is, however, that there are many people who are not sincerely invested in it, and their lack of investment really is due to weakness against conformism (sheeple). Or it could be due to driving-addiction/dependency, which is caused by numerous factors including the level of driving-dependency built into social-geographical patterns, economic/social expectations, and so forth.

It is not helpful to get defensive if you feel something you read may apply to you. Like with anything else, it's best to take a step back and then, with emotional neutrality, reflect on your situation and to what extent something said applies to you or not, why, and why you should care (or not). I can remember a time when I smoked and got very defensive whenever someone mentioned the problems with smoking, but in retrospect they were right and I was defensive because of my addiction. I wonder if I would have eventually made up my mind to quit and had the willpower to do it if it weren't for all those annoying comments that I always got defensive about. People want to kill the messenger, but sometimes we are grateful to (the corpse) after we've killed him and the message finally sinks in.

You should start threads on these kinds of issues. Lots of threads like that used to get posted but what happens, I think, is that people move on into these other topics that you seem to dislike. Really, there's no reason all types of discussions can't coexist. If you find that people are derailing threads you start with bickering, tell them not to do it. Certain negative nancies of this forum get on my nerves for always attacking me whenever I express my views, but there's not much to do except stand up for yourself by telling them why they're wrong, and even then they just ignore you and go on attacking you for thinking differently than they would prefer.

You're assuming this is all about bragging about being hardcore, but it's not necessarily an ego trip. When some of us talk about 'sheeple' or driving-dependency, addiction, sprawl, etc. it is because we want to discuss the problems and think toward solutions. It's not just about saying, "look at me, I can talk about this." If discussion dissolves into bragging, the discussion ends. You have to keep reasoning in a constructive way to avoid falling into the pit of ego-competition.

More than likely you not only have a point but you may be right in your assessment.

Good point, RR, people have a tendency to go whole hog with a lot of things to try and point out how good/bad it is... Internet "discussions" do for sure...

This is not a completely new idea. There's a thought that there are four kinds of cyclists. The one's bragging at their utility cycling or the LCF-ness are probably the "Strong and fearless" types. It's been pointed out that the most effective advocacy would actually target the larger "Interested but concerned" group. '

Instead of being an LCF-Now!!! militant, suggest that those who are interested in riding more merely do so. Run an errand on a bike. Do some cycling activities. Work up to a commute.

Instead of going off on how everyone cycling will change the world, heal the environment, etc., focus more on the practical aspects -- saves money, healthy -- and don't forget to mention that riding is fun.

Instead of scoffing at what you may think is not legitimate concerns, talk people through your decision-making so they know the reasoning behind why you don't think what they are concerned about is such a big deal.

Ultimately, leading by example is the best way to encourage anything. Like many other things, success will be if LCF becomes something which is attractive, rather than something it is necessary to promote.

Actually, those four types are completely made up in order to push an agenda favoring segregated facilities, even ones that are demonstrably more dangerous than a standard bike lane (not in the door zone). Also, I doubt if the folks who invented the terms would classify anyone doing utility cycling in the demeaning "strong but fearless" category, since their intent with that one was to dis folks who ride with an eye on performance. Amusingly, I like the push back on that one that substitutes "competent and confident".

Who went to the trouble of making the 4 types up? I know who came up with the bike tribes or at least who published a book with that Title.

I think if you want to encourage less reliance on cars, you should focus your efforts on improving infrastructure. Find out what type of infrastructure is wanted and needed by those "interested but concerned" types.

I don't think non-riders much care what devoted and capable riders think or do. They probably just look at that congested 45 mph highway and say No Way I'm going there on a bicycle!

I'm car-free because I'm poor. Period. If I could afford to buy a car, insure it, maintain it, "feed" it, I would; but I can't. So, I ride a bicycle to the supermarket, farmers market, public library, VA medical center, and any/everywhere else that I need/want to. And, if I can't, I generally don't go there. Yeah, it's limiting, but it's a fiscal and physical thing. And yeah, I'm proud of being able to do so, of being independent and self-reliant (and the past two months, healing an !@#$ diabetic foot ulcer, have been difficult ones). I can ride 20, 25, 30, 40, even 50 miles, but I can't walk a quarter-mile. Ego? No; I go.

This may be one of the most pertinent straight forward posts I have read on this forum.

I'm sorry to hear about your foot problem. I hope your health improves soon! I admire that you're not letting it stop you even if it slows you down some.

I would have to trust you on why those classifications were made up, but to your other point, if you just forget the "strong and fearless," and lump them in with "enthused and confident," I think we end up with what you're saying here.

In any case, that still only makes up a minority of 8%, with a majority falling in the "interested by concerned" category. Whether you address those concerns via some infrastructure agenda, or as I described, by reason, example, and demonstration, something has to be done to address those concerns before you get such people on bikes in any kind of numbers.

From the OP, I gather that there are those who bludgeon others with their righteous brand of LCF-ness, which for some, could be a turn-off. What I suggest is that there are ways to actively promote LCF without ego and self-aggrandizement attached to it.

I agree improving infrastructure is important pretty much everywhere, but in some areas there's pretty good infrastructure already in place and there's more of an opportunity for nudging some people into trying it out. But yeah, I grew up in the suburbs surrounded by those 45 mph highways, and any attempt to get people there to change their habits isn't worth much until we achieve systemic improvements.

My two cents is that the aggressive confrontation of hesitant newbies you describe either never actually happens, or is only rarely seen, perhaps in the heat of a long debate. More likely, that kind of language is presented as a caricature of the car-free/car-light position, by pro-car people. When somebody posts in this forum asking for information they get a very receptive response. If they post that car-free is impossible and stupid, sure, they may get some flack, but that's what they came looking for.

I realize it isn't a choice you made freely, but is it possible that the bike dependence has actually helped in maintaining your health and managing your diabetes?

Doesn't sound like rocket science. But a lot of people don't get it.

A man has got to know his limitations - Clint Eastwood - Magnum Force

I don't care if its is discouraging to other people - that is THEIR problem. I don't know about you, but it is nice to get an ever-so-small pat on the back for doing something "extreme". And there are plenty of folks on Bike Forums who hand out those pat on the backs liberally. It is what makes this forum a fun, encouraging place to hang out. But I don't do it for the pats on the back. I do it because I enjoy doing it. When I commuted three years ago when it was -23°F, I did it BECAUSE it was that cold, not in spite of it. It was a fun adventure. If that discourages others . . so be it.

An older gentleman recently posted his average speeds - he is in his 80s. Maybe that is actively confrontational, but I find it inspiring.

If I had wanted to get people to change their habits, I would have become a priest. It would have made Mom & Dad happy.

There are plenty of people like JBHoren and I ride the bus with them all the time. During the weekends, I'll sit in the front and watch all the passengers either show their monthly pass and board, or beg the driver to give them a free ride. About 10% of all bus riders during the weekend (in my town) either have little or no money for the bus. It's shocking!

These people can actually benefit from bicycle transport but if you don't have $2.40 for the bus, where are you going to come up with $100.00 dollars for a bicycle, lock and helmet?

I wish the best of luck for JBHoren.

If you know of a bike that isn't being used, fix it up and see that it gets to somebody who needs it but can't afford it. Throw in the lock, helmet, and lights if you can afford it. My son fixes up a lot of bikes and gives them away, and I enjoy helping him.

We have a couple of priests here on this forum who are constantly preaching about morals and ethics of LCF...These priests believe that great masses of people have been deceived by automotivism and all those poor souls who own cars need their driving habits changed before it's too late.

On a different sub forum I wrote this, it seems applicable:

You do know that the most commonly overused parable in management seminars is this: A person going to a hardware store to buy a drill does not want a drill, he wants a hole!

For many people the same applied to bicycles, the buyer does not want a bicycle, the buyer wants cheap, efficient transportation. Yes, of course there are exceptions; if a person is posting on this site they probably are one of the exceptions. However, most cyclists are trying to address a need, not a passion. There is nothing wrong with that and is should not be derided, as it so often is on this site. Bike forums should not become "just drive a car" forums.

There are many different ways to live car free. For example one can use public transportation for the little trips, and hire a delivery service for the big stuff.

In fact, I have neighbors that are driving cars, and routinely hire awkward stuff that doesn't fit in their cars to be delivered that I might otherwise carry on a bicycle. But I also know that I have some limits of what I can do with the bike... maybe. I have to work on some of those.

No couches so far, but I've had more than a few awkward loads on my bike.

I suppose I consider it as an example of living car free out of town and away from bus routes.

People can consider me as the local clown (entertainment purposes of the next thing heading down the road behind my bike), or perhaps can take it as an example of what is possible.

If nobody ever tries to carry a couch, then they may well think it is impossible. See a few headed down the road at a snails pace, and hopefully it opens up the possibilities.

+1!!

That may be true but "Bike" forums should not be used to deride how someone amends their use of a bicycle either. Just take the bus or just live in high density housing is no better than just drive a car. We all make compromises to live the lives that seem right to us. Everyone rationalizes their choices. But one thing that must be remembered people that made other choices more than likely were not deluded but made serious consideration before making them. I for one don't care where people want to live or how they get from point A to point B. I do care if they condemn others for not wanting to live the same way.

Sorry, I think you do care, and I think it's good that you care. I don't think you would spend so much time on a transportation forum if you didn't care about how people get from point A to point B.