McBTC

We all must at least try to accept tandempower's, "challenge... to think about things from different angles instead of always just arguing to reject anything and everything that isn't established as fact by authority," and take this opportunity to address possible concerns about an LCF culture of dependency that we may unwittingly be facilitating.

cooker

It's a false meme from this forum that there are all those car-free people out there bumming rides from people they feel smugly superior to. Much more likely that they are often turning down rides from well-meaning people who don't 'get' LCF/LCL.

McBTC

Sort of like offering a drunk a bottle of hooch? That's just not right. Goodonya for just saying "No" to a free ride.

Walter S

+1. It's been many years since I got anybody to drive me anywhere (except the bus driver, the cab driver, the train operator for a fee).

cooker

I wouldn't know - you're the one who wants this to be about addiction.

McBTC

I'm being open-minded. I thought it was the anti-car LCF faithful's feeling that cars are an addiction and irrespective of all other considerations, we should all be taking the bus, working down the street or living in Oslo or NY.

Roody

The same could be said of internet forums.

kickstart

Not really.
One posts their thoughts on internet forums for the express purpose of being consumed by others, where as one tends a garden for their own consumption.

Everyone who reads this post is welcome to agree, disagree, or ignore it at will, Nobody is welcome to the contents of my garden without my expressed invitation.

IMO, it's reprehensible that one would measure the value of anothers opinions based on their level of participation in a forum.

cooker

Perhaps some feel that way to an extent, but not that "all" people must somehow live that way, and not "irrespective of all other considerations". This type of all or nothing thinking, and especially attributing it to others as seems to be common here, is quite detrimental to productve and civil discourse.

Walter S

Thank you for striking right at the heart of an issue that is so characteristic of posts that lead to heated feelings and arguments again and again on the part of myself and many others.

McBTC

Perhaps you should have given more consideration to the naming of the sub-forum, as has come up in previous discussions. The anti-car animus is baked into the title... You've conceded before that the sub-forum has zero to do with a love of bikes and the sport of cycling.

Walter S

It does for some obviously and for others obviously not. Any idiot with a modicum of common sense and exposure to a sampling of posts will realize something so trivial.

McBTC

... but, apparently not enough sense to realize that anyone with a love of bikes and the sport of cycling may well love the cars they use that enable them to participate in the sport and enjoy riding and that at best this is the Commuting forum with attitude and at worst nothing but attitude, i.e., a lot of stinkin' thinkin'

Walter S

I'm fully enabled anyway. In fact without a car it's a much better feeling. I've posted many times about my love for cycling as well as many reasons I personally dislike driving cars. Yes it's an attitude. If it bothers you go somewhere else. This is a forum about living car free. Not a forum about how great cars are. You seem to be confused trying to find the proper venue for your car loving discussions.

General Car Talk Forum & Discussions at Automotive.com

Among the dumbest reasons (for me) to drive a car would be so I could ride my bicycle

Walter S

It didn't last long for him. But for many people car free living is an enduring lifestyle. It varies with the individual including their values, location, family life, job and other circumstances. This thread is valuable as a reality-check that car free living is not right for everybody, even if they thought it was going in. But this thread is not proof that car free living does not work as a rewarding lifestyle for many people. I've been car free since 2011 and I don't plan to get a car anytime soon. Other people have been car free (by choice) for much longer than me.

tandempower

Practical applications have nothing to do with critical thinking, unless your actions are an attempt to critically question something that you've been told is not possible. Otherwise the practice of critical thinking is about thinking beyond what you've been told or what has been established as 'fact' by other authorities than your own direct verification, and even then you can question whether you yourself were wrong in verifying/validating something prematurely or assumptively.

tandempower

I'm more anti-pavement than I am anti-car, and I'm not against pavement altogether; I just know that less pavement would mean more room for living soil and roots. It might be ideal to eliminate cars altogether for various reasons, but understanding that doesn't make you 'anti-car' any more than it would make you 'anti-gun' to understand that it would be better if all problems could be solved without guns.

McBTC

Of course... that's why the LCF sub-forum belongs in the "Lounge" not in "Bike Forums." You're making my point: LCF is, Commuting With Attitude... an attitude that has nothing to do with cycling.

Walter S

I "make your point" when you quote an intentionally misinterpreted fragment of my post. Big deal. The reason it's dumb is because I ride my bicycle every day from my front door with no car necessary to "enable" that. For me LCF has everything to do with cycling. I would not be LCF if I didn't ride bicycles.

McBTC

Great fodder for the Lounge... the LCF sub-forum being in the "Bike Forum" makes no more sense than LCF being titled "LG[un]F"...

tandempower

You're the one posting about people being 'anti-car.'

Mobile 155

When you play cards and place a bet it pays to have at least a pair in your hand. Someone will call you bluff.

From the text book on Critical Thinking by Reichenbach as taught at George Washington University.

Characteristics of Critical Thinking
Step 1: Knowledge
Step 2: Comprehension
Step 3: Application
Application requires that you know what you have read, heard, or seen, that you comprehend it, and that you carry out some task to apply what you comprehend to an actual situation.
Step 4: Analysis
Step 5: Synthesis
Step 6: Evaluation

I could list the tasks that "require" application for you if you would like but you should already know that.

McBTC

I'm anti-car. Walter S says, "Among the dumbest reasons (for me) to drive a car would be so I could ride my bicycle," whereas my take on it is that there are many people who should never drive a car at all. To my mind, a lifestyle that incorporates an appreciation for fitness is not a dumb reason to drive a car. I am pro-car for anyone who is responsible and is willing to provide the proper maintenance that is required such as good brakes and tires and who will exercise good judgment and common sense and probably the vast majority of cyclists feel the same way. Of course, LCF does not represent the vast majority of cyclists.

Walter S

It's the dumbest reason there is. Needing a car to stay fit is the silliest and most ironically ridiculous way of justifying the cost and environmental impact of an automobile. But if you feel differently fine. Enjoy your car. Why you want to do it on the LCF forum is a mystery to me

Walter S

You don't understand TP's streamlined critical thinking If you think critically enough, you can skip the application