Originally Posted by Artkansas

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions.

In many communities there isn't a stream nearby. I lived near to Bear Creek for 8 years. Barely saw a drop of water in it. Sometimes none at all for over a year at a time.

Originally Posted by Ekdog

I do the same. No vinegar smell.

Regarding washing clothes by hand: I imagine that using a washing machine requires less water. I know that's the case with dishes. A dishwasher is much more efficient than washing up by hand.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike

You are assuming the stream has to be nearby. Whatz da matter with riding or walking to the nearest stream no matter how far away it is? Or don't wash clothes until you do see a drop of water. Sounds pretty simple to me.

Whatz wid dis clean clothes fetish anyhow?

Originally Posted by Alekhine

As for a bed, I prefer to sleep on the floor with my Thermarest and a couple of comfy blankets because my back likes a very firm underlying surface. My time spent in tents put this oddball thing into me. I'm going to be getting a kakebuton and a Japanese futon (shikibuton) soon though, because I've grown fond of them. (It's not what we think of as a futon in the US - which is a sort of hybrid couch/bed. A Japanese futon is a thin wool-filled cotton mattress that trifolds and stows in a closet or large cupboard, with a big, heavy, warm quilted comforter that does the same.)

Originally Posted by Roody

It doesn't take much water to wash clothes by hand, but it sure takes a lot to rinse them. Hand washing is not recommended if you want to conserve water.

Originally Posted by bluefoxicy

...bed frame (bed was a box spring + mattress on the floor), which has made the bed harder to get into as I have to climb onto it.

Originally Posted by bluefoxicy

I use a Laundry Alternative spin drier, and do one rinse in a few gallons of water. The spin dryer removes most of the water (and detergent, which is dissolved in the water, and which oils are dissolved into), so I get soapy water out. A washing machine does the same: toss clothes from the front loader into the damn thing and it'll squeeze out soapy water.

Originally Posted by Smallwheels

Are you just two feet tall? I use a mattress without a box spring or a bed frame. It makes it easier for my miniature dachshund to jump on and off of it. I don't climb into it. I just squat way down to get on it.

Originally Posted by Smallwheels

What type of spin dryer do you have? Is it electric or powered by hand? How many pieces of clothing can it hold? Is it portable and small like the Wonder Wash machine?

Originally Posted by Platy

One result of this situation is that low profile box springs with a 4 inch thickness are becoming more popular. You might wonder, what's the point of making mattresses thicker and box springs thinner. I guess it's just one of those marketing fashions.

Originally Posted by bluefoxicy

...versus me at 143 by myself....

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike

Living the simple life, eh?

Originally Posted by zoltani

That's some serious trolling, not that you don't just troll the threads normally, but you've sunk to a new low IMO.

Originally Posted by zoltani

That too....

was not cool

Originally Posted by phillyskyline

I don't think this thread was meant to be a p*ssing contest or philosophy lesson, and personally, I don't feel that anyone here is bragging or trying to make others feel guilty about their life choices. I happen to be one of the folks Roody is referring to who is trying to simplify and declutter my life, and I'm just interested to see how other people live. It's inspiring in some cases, and in others it makes me realize that I do enjoy the stuff I have, like my ridiculously large house, my pets, my cooking equipment, and of course, my bikes

Originally Posted by Curious LeTour

Comparing for the sake of competing is futile. Those of us into voluntary simplicity know this. Comparing for the sake of learning is beneficial, in my opinion.

I'd love to live car free, but I use my compact pick up to haul tools and brush to earn a living. I work for a company, so I can't choose to use a bike for that purpose.

Also, the woman that I'm in a relationship with does not live with me. Even though she loves to ride mountain bikes and cross bikes, she prefers to use an automobile for transportation 95% of the time.

She also likes riding horse, and I formerly trained horses for a living. Now I'm feeling the urge to purchase a horse again. I'm feeling motivated to do this for two reasons. The first is that it would be something that would bring us closer together. The second is that I struggled with self esteem issues earlier this year, and training a young horse would make me feel special and confident to some extent.

On the other hand, I don't want to pay for a horse, the stall rent, the extra fuel, and the tack. I've already purchased a trailer. I feel like it is a slide back into mainstream competition and consumerism.

It is great to read these posts and see where people draw the lines for themselves, and why they draw them.

Originally Posted by Newspaperguy

Simplicity does not necessarily mean getting rid of everything except for the most meagre of essentials. Simplicity, the way I see it, is about stripping out the clutter from life, getting rid of the non-essentials.

On a material level, it may involve downsizing, getting rid of possessions which have no purpose in one's life and avoiding expensive hobbies or habits. On a personal level, it also may mean stepping away from commitments which drain time and energy.

However, simplicity for one person may not be simplicity for another. My version of a simple lifestyle for me as a single person is completely different than a simple lifestyle for a couple, and a couple's version of simplicity is not the same as that of a family with children. Someone who works as an independent trades person will have need for tools and transportation different from an employee in an office or a retired person.

The point is that a horse, while not part of my simple lifestyle, may fit in to yours. Meanwhile, I may have things in my simple lifestyle which would be unnecessary in yours.

There is no one right method here, simply because each of us has different needs and different circumstances.

Originally Posted by proethele

Interesting thread - my fiancee & I have long been talking about how we have far too much stuff, now we are motivated to do something about it. I would love to go car-free one day, but it's a bit more difficult in the Midwest than along the Northeast Corridor (when you're surrounded by farmland, they just keep building out.) Plus, my fitness level needs to come up quite a bit before that's viable .

As far as dumpster diving - I don't do it personally (I'm a bit of a "germ freak"), but I used to have a job delivering to grocery stores. When a product is expired, the store usually pulls it off the shelves and puts it in the "back room" to be returned to the delivery man / distributor for a partial credit. 99% of the time, the delivery man just needs a count of the items, or the UPC code - often, they will just tear off the UPC code and chuck the items in the store's dumpster. I used to see quite a few people dumpster diving (often with the manager's blessing) and it wasn't unusual for them to pull out loads of canned goods, prepackaged coffee cakes/donuts, bread, etc. that were just one day past the expiration date - the cans/boxes were still sealed, just the UPC code was missing. Unless the manufacturer's have found a way to make the food magically turn rancid on midnight of the expiration date, that stuff is perfectly edible if the packaging isn't compromised. Meat & produce are a bit trickier, but I know people who've done it - one tip is to look for large bags of produce (it's not unusual to find a whole large bag of oranges/apples/onions/potatoes/etc. that was thrown out because just one of them got squished). It's not for me, but I do agree that this country wastes a ton of food that could easily go to people who need it...

Originally Posted by TheFool

Thanks Big2Wheeler and ataraxium. No sense in trying to be some kind of purist. Nothing wrong with comprimise. My wife and I live far away from where each of us currently works (and therefore we each drive) so that we can each do interesting and meaningful work and make enough to save for the future, but also live in a good community where we can work by ourselves and with neighbors on local self sufficiency and sustainability. Self sufficiency is a contradiction, really, you need to be part of some kind of local system or community. Any changes in how we all live are not going to happen by everyone radically changing overnight. Changes will be small and, I hope, be part of an integrated way of improving our towns and neighborhoods, along many dimensions.

Originally Posted by zoltani

To me, I-Like-To-Bike, you seem like the kind of person that is unhappy with the way you live (and feel you are powerless to change it) and when you come in here and read a thread like this you see everything as an attack on you. [SNIP]
How do you expect us to empathize with you if you do not actually share your life and experiences with us?

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike

Share life experiences with an arm chair Interwebs psychiatrist like yourself? Don't make me laff.

Originally Posted by zoltani

From your past posts I didn't really expect you to.

Originally Posted by Neil_B

As opposed to insulting the obese, which is standard practice on Bike Forums.