adgrant

"In May, many of Detroit's lower-end brands had their sales crimped. For instance, sales fell 1.5% for the Chevy Tahoe, an SUV that sells for around $37,665 to buyers averaging annual pay of less $40,000. But sales of a higher-end SUV, the Cadillac Escalade, soared 56.1%. The average buyer of an Escalade, which starts at about $53,850, makes at least $175,000 a year."

Two things are alarming. First SUV sales haven't really declined even amoung lower income buyers. Secondly, Chevy Tahoe buyers aon average spend their entire gross income for one year on their SUVs. I am not sure how they can afford this. The wealthier Cadillac Escalade buyers spend less than half their gross annual income on their SUVs.

Also interesting, the Chevy Tahoe (selling to low income families) costs about the same as a 3 series BMW.

burbankbiker

I don't know if it's enough to make a difference but there was an article recently about how Washington goverment agencies had just placed a bunch of new orders for Escalades. The article was highlighting how those in Washington still weren't concerned about high gas prices.

I don't know how many Escalades they bought, but it might be enough to boost that statistic. Government agencies do buy a lot of government vehicles.

In a seemingly contrasting article, THIS FROM FORBES says that may was a tough May for the big three US automakers and that Toyota and Honda are doing better.

mtnroads

Oh, the trends are shifting, no doubt.

From today's NY Times:

Sales figures reported Thursday showed that Toyota, Honda and other Asian manufacturers claimed a record 40 percent of the American market in May, when sales of fuel-efficient vehicles like the Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic and Hyundai Sonata all rose 20 percent or more compared with May 2005.

For Detroit companies, which have continued to aggressively market their costly new sport utility vehicles and pickup trucks despite the high gas prices, market share last month dropped to 52.9 percent — their second-lowest in history.

G.M. reported its first decline in sales of the new version of the Chevrolet Tahoe, which dropped 5.5 percent compared with 2005. G.M. has been banking on sales of its new S.U.V.'s and coming pickup trucks as the ballast for the turnaround plan it hopes will reverse its $10.6 billion 2005 loss.

S.U.V. sales also plunged at Ford, where overall sales dropped 6 percent. The compact Escape came only 18 vehicles shy of passing the Explorer, long the darling of Ford's sport utility lineup, as its most popular S.U.V.

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/02/bu...th&oref=slogin

Artkansas 

In the business it's called being upside down. In other words right from the day they take delivery, they owe more on the car than it's worth. There may even be a substantial balloon payment due at the end of their loan contract.

Then again, with such a big SUV maybe they don't need a house.

Dahon.Steve

That's insane.

I was making 40K a year not that long ago and there is NO WAY I had money to buy a 37K motorcar. In the New York Metro, a 40K salary means you are part of the working poor. Seriously. That is a working mans salary. Incredible.

When I made 40K, I had about $500.00 dollars (maybe) left over at the end of the month. I earned about $1,500.00 dollars net income a month from which $900.00 had to go for rent alone. Keep in mind that I lived cheaply and many others are paying much more in rent.

So I was left with $500.00 dollars a month for food, transportation, utilities, cell phone, cable, credit cards, lunch, entertainment, gifts, travel, medical and miscellaneous expenses. After paying all these expenses, where in the world are you going to get the money to pay for monthly car payments, insurance, repairs, tolls, tickets and parking? YOU CAN'T!

This is why millions in this country go bankrupt each year.

Dahon.Steve

Someone posted an article that showed a huge portion or the majority of motorcar owners are in fact upside down on their loans. This is called working for the banks. It's a trap for millions of Americans to spend the rest of their lives in debt.

kf5nd

Conversely... if you can get out of debt, you will feel as free as a bird.

In 13 years, my mortgage will be paid off, no car loans of course, no credit card debt, and youngest kid will be done with college.

What will I do with all that money ?!?

Autoworker

Why all this negativity towards SUV's? An SUV is nothing more than a pickup truck that's been turned into a station wagon. Do you also like to rag on pickup trucks?

I drive a 2007 GMC Yukon, and its the best riding vehicle I've ever owned. I use it just like I do my 2005 BMW K1200LT motorcyle - just for special trips with my wife, or when we just want to treat ourselves. Our daily driver is a 4 cylinder 2003 Suzuki Aereo which is kind of a mini-minivan, and gets great gas mileage. I also commute to work daily on my recumbent bike, so I feel that I probably use less gas than most people, even though I drive a SUV. Oh, and all my vehicles are paid for.

I have made my living in the auto industry for the past 30 years, so I get a little ticked off at all this anti-SUV bias. The domestic auto industry is what created the middle-class in North America, and all you angry anti-car, anti-SUV, anit-everything ranters wouldn't be enjoying the standard of living you do if it wasn't for the domestic auto industry, so lighten up! Ever stop to think what would happen to YOUR standard of living if everyone stopped buying cars & SUV's tomorrow?

And besides, why should you even care how others spend their money? One thing I've learned if life is that everyone has different priorities. What rocks your boat doesn't necessarily rock mine. Live and let live, and do whatever YOU are comfortable with as far as being enviromentally responsible. Life is short, and PEAK OIL is probably just around the corner - https://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/ so enjoy life while you can, these are probably the best days of your lives.

FLAME SUIT ON, OVER AND OUT.

kf5nd

I make my living feeding the cars that you build, I work in oil exploration. But because of Peak Oil, I think that we have to move away from oil dependence ASAP, or else we won't have much of a "lifestyle" left. Not to mention we're going to have trouble feeding ourselves.

I think that's the morally responsible position to take. People with anti-car biases are justified in what they feel. Cars will be the end of us. They created the middle class, but they cannot sustain it. We have to do a severe mid-course correction in our society.

yes

One can hate a culture where large suv's are status/success symbols. One can be annoyed at the level of consumer debt in this country, b/c of the instability that it creates. Given the above, it is easy to blame the auto-makers for marketing said suv's just as the cigarrette manufacturers are blamed for smoking, gun manuf...
I believe in personal responsibility, and blame the consumer - and I do think oil overconsumption and debt are problems that cost society as well as the actual consumber/debter.
I don't hate suv's or have a problem w/ oil / car industry workers. But don't hurt yourself w/ those pats on the back. Our economy / middle class would have been created w/ or w/o cars. I would argue that the gas guzzlers actually hurt the economy, b/c they ship boat loads of money to middle eastern oil producers.

adgrant

I agree that "an SUV is nothing more than a pickup truck that's been turned into a station wagon", that's the problem. Why not just drive a station wagon. It will get better gas mileage, handle and ride better and will be safer. Not enough space, drive a minivan. For the record I drive a BMW station wagon.

Pickup trucks are great when they are being driven by the landscaper or painter. However, I don't understand why surburban office workers need to drive them (I saw one on TV complaining about the price of gas while she was sitting in her huge crew cab pickup truck).

The domestic auto industry would be in much better shape right now if it had focused a bit more on producing cars that people would want to buy while oil was cheap instead of just churning out huge SUVs. I don't fault them for producing the SUVs though, they were very profitable because many drivers were willing to overpay for a pickup truck with a station wagon body. However, they should have forseen the current level of gas prices and planned accordingly.

Owning a car just for special trips is an expensive indulgance but then again, so is garaging a car in Manhattan (which I do).

pedex

My beef against the almighty SUV is because like many american businesses its gotten help from the govt to survive. I have no problems if people want to buy and drive them, but be willing to pay for it. Remove the govt loopholes, make them subject to the same standards as all other cars or trucks, one or the other not both. Right now they enjoy truck mileage standards and car licensing fees, thats called having your cake and eating it too. By exempting them from the CAFE car fleet standards the big 3 have gotten yet another free ride paid for by john q taxpayer, this kind of nonsense needs to end with a quickness.

randya

SUVs and other light trucks are also exempt from most car safety standards (side impact and roof pillar reinforcement, for starters), that makes 'em cheaper to build and probably contributes greatly to rollover deaths (oops, the roof collapsed!).

adgrant

It most definitely contributes greatly to roll over deaths. The other contributing factor is that truck based SUVs are unstable at high speeds when changing direction. A PBS segment was talking about this. It was shot in DC by the Capitol. While it was being shot, there was an off camera bang. They turned the camera around to reveal a Chevy Blazer on its side which the driver had lost control of. You can't make this stuff up.

___

No doubt, corporate welfare at its finest -- LOL @ what some folks think is the "free-market".

nedgoudy

When the problem threatens to bring down
society then it goes beyond personal
responsibility in my mind and becomes
an issue that government has a right
AND a responsibility to legislate against.

The population at large doesn't wanna let
me cultivate and personally consume
personal quantities of marajuana, and that
is there choice I guess, and likewise I say
it is time to end the addiction to oil.

And if that means outlawing any cars that
don't get 60 mpg by 2015, then BRING IT ON!

PS: I have been clean and sober for
26 years but largely due to increased
criminal penalties for grass.

If we can outlaw marajuana,
we can outlaw SUVs!

LandLuger

As others have posted, SUV's are just an obvious target; yet another example of the stupidity of the masses--all present company excluded of course

pedex

Absolutely, it isnt just SUV's for certain. All car makers have done this to an extent. Take the Honda accord for example. It came to the US in 1976 or 77, it has a stratified charged 1.5L engine that made about 68hp, it got about 38-42mpg real world numbers. I dont remember its curb weight but it was a small 1.6L class car at that time. Fast forward to today, same model of car now has what?200-250hp and gets only slightly less mileage and its also a much bigger car. They have taken all the efficiency gains from better machining and design plus better fuel management and other tricks to improve internal combustion engines and instead of increasing mileage theyve added power and kept the same mileage or let it slide downward a bit.

Then there's the prius which is 100% pure gimmick and no real meat or improvements behind it. It gets ok mileage, but nothing spectacular for this day and age. Counting the resources for its manufacture and operation its actually no better than an SUV.

Perception is everything, and often the first ones can be wrong huh? But its how things are sold and marketed unfortunately.

adgrant

But if you want something like the old Accord, you can just buy a Civic and if you want something like the old Civic, just buy a Honda Fit.

I would still rather see someone driving an Accord than an SUV, any SUV.

Autoworker

Ah, the infamous, dreaded SUV rollover! If these things are so inherently flawed by design, and unsafe, how come we never read about an epidemic of pickup truck rollovers? There is absolutely no difference between a pickup truck and an SUV, except for the body.

As far as special treatment for SUV's goes, when I purchased my 2007 Yukon, I had to pay an $800 "fuel consumption surcharge" (gas guzzler tax). If I had bought a GMC pickup truck instead, I would have paid nothing. To add insult to injury, I also had to pay 15% tax on the gas guzzler tax! All this, while my vehicle has Displacement on Demand, which runs the engine on 4 cylinders when cruising and not under load. Oh well, if you want to play, you have to pay!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a troll, and I would love to live car-free if possible, but here in Canada, it just ain't possible. Between the climate, the distances involved, and the pathetic public trasportation system, unless you live and work in downtown Toronto, (YUK!), it just can't be done. What I do do is try to limit my vehicle usage as much as possible by combining errands, using my motorcycle when possible, and commuting to work on my bike. On my trip to Alaska last summer, I rode my motorcycle, and got over 50mpg, while travelling between 80-120 mph the whole time, for 17,000 kilometers in 15 days. This summer, we're taking our granddaughter to the Grand Canyon with us in the Yukon, and I'm already dreading the fuel costs. When I retire in 3 years, I plan on riding my Lightfoot Ranger recumbent bicycle from coast to coast (Prince Rupert, BC to St. John's, Newfoundland).

I just hope society holds together long enough for me to accomplish these goals. Things have never been better for me, yet looked so gloomy! What was that I read somewhere, "It was the best of times and it was the worst of times" ?

Platy

Autoworker,

Would it be fair to summarize your position as saying that current automobiles are very fine products but that you anticipate some future difficulty with fueling them?

KnhoJ

Don't forget the higher center of mass from the extra bodywork, the softer suspension, and wimpier sway control. Swerve back and forth in either: Most load-designed pickups will be a lesson in stiff suspension vs a lot of weight riding on stiff load hauler tires, and most suv's based on the same frames will swing, wallow, rock, and roll; outside observers can watch the passenger car tires folding under the rims if you push it.
Don't worry, pickups fall over all the time, too. People driving the big ones can't see over the pickup's enormous buttocks, and not everyone knows how to clear a blind lane, so sometimes they catch someone's front fender with the rear bumper while changing lanes. Round and round they go, just like on nascar! Look for figure 8 skid marks near freeway on/off ramps, the ones that end with gouges were made by a pickup or suv that fell over. I've watched a dually Dodge Ram trip over a Miata this way, crumpling the Miata's fender and hood, while the pickup driver went on for an inverted toboggan ride. Whoopsie! Ever seen a modern sedan on it's lid simply due to sliding on flat, clean pavement?

wagathon

If you own a boat or tow a trailer, for example, owning a SUV is just common sense or you'd have to own two cars: one for driving to work and a truck that only gets used when you have to do some hauling.

adgrant

Very few SUVs are used for towing.

adgrant

But you live in Canada, in the U.S. you probably wouldn't pay any guzzler tax.