wahoonc

Sounds like about 3/4ths of the towns in this country that haven't totally destroyed their close in neighborhoods.

Personally I like a smallish town (8k-15k) within an hour's drive of a larger city. Problem is a lot of those have been turned into bedroom communities for the large city with no mass transit provided. I would love to see the return of the neighborhood pharmacy, grocery store, service station, florist, doctor, dentist, barber shop etc. Yes we paid a bit more for things and didn't have a mega selection but it was much nicer IMHO.

Aaron

shortbus901

This pretty much describes where I live (and most of the rest of Florida) to a tee. I have 4 Publix stores, 3 Sweetbay's (both large southeastern supermarket chains), 5 Walgreens and the obligatory CVS stores that have to go on the other corner, a Sprawl-Mart and Lord only knows how many duplicate gas stations, banks, fast food joints and other generic icons of suburban life all within ~3-4 miles of my front door. I'm not carfree or even car lite I'm afraid because my work (which happens to be 10 miles from home in the opposite direction from downtown) pretty much necessitates having one as I drive all over the state doing permitting. I do however fully realize that our current way of life is totally unsustainable. I like to think that we are still an innovative enough nation to come up with solutions to the impending problems but when I see people putting lift kits and huge tires on their brand new F-whatever series trucks I can't help but wonder how it's all going to play out; whatever happens it will be interesting to say the least.

On a somewhat humorous note the number of people on Craigslist trying to offload brand new full size SUV's is skyrocketing around here. This guy dropped $4000 off the price of his monstrosity since yesterday:

https://tampa.craigslist.org/car/688330003.html

TuckertonRR

"Simply put, it is the center of attention no matter where it goes or whats beside it. Below you will find a description of the "BATBUS" and photos."

yep, nothin like cagers wanting to attract attention!!!

wahoonc

OOOH it gets 1,000 miles between fillups...so did my friggin BlueBird Bus amazing how far you can go on a 300 GALLON TANK! Filling it is another story

Aaron

Lamplight

I recently had a truck driver at work telling me he could go over 1000 miles before filling up, but when he did fill up it was over $1300. I really can't figure out how these guys are still making enough to get by.

gwd

Roody you're missing the logical fallacies. It strikes me as extremely hypocritical for my suburban friends to say they "like wildlife" so they would never live in a dense city- instead they contribute to wildlife habitat destruction by buying in sprawl land and drive everywhere. Many people seem to be like me. When I moved to the city I thought I'd have to go into the park or bike up the river to see wildlife. And that is true I can do that, but an ornithologist moved in and pointed out to me how much I could see just outside my window, and I started looking and found out that he was right. You don't see things when you choose not to look. The only place I've seen wild beaver is in the Potomac river- inside the beltway. Part of the reason for the wildlife is the network of urban parks. The geometrical fact remains that if all the apartment dwellers moved into single family detached homes there would be less wildlife because of habitat destruction. Sustainability is a different issue. The other logical fallacy is that the same number of amenities that are in my neighborhood could be just as conveniently located if the apartment dwellers were spread out in single family homes. Again it is geometry, some amenities could be conveniently located near some homes but they would necessarily have to be far from others. (Yes topologists, I know but you know a grocery can't have aisles that narrow. Lets stick with rectangular lots with reasonable dimensions.).

How did you like the hawk photo? I could've posted one with the hawk in a tree rather than on the bridge but then you'd never guess it was in the middle of the city right? The bird just sat there as I got off my bike and unzipped the camera bag.

FXjohn

less selection and higher prices. A win win situation INDEED my friend.

mike

"Greater Atlanta has roughly the same population as Greater Berlin — but Berlin is a city of trains, buses and bikes, while Atlanta is a city of cars, cars and cars.

And in the face of rising oil prices, which have left many Americans stranded in suburbia — utterly dependent on their cars, yet having a hard time affording gas — it’s starting to look as if Berlin had the better idea."


Ich bin ein Berliner!

bragi

He's spending $1.30/mile?! Just on fuel? Assuming $4.00/gal for diesel, he's getting 3 mpg? (If my math is off, and it may be, please correct me.)

wahoonc

I will bet that he can go closer to 2kmiles...I thought about that after I posted on my Blue Bird (a bit tongue in cheek) My BB was a 7.5-8mpg monster, so with a full fill up of the 300 gallon tank I had a realistic range of right around 2,000 miles (YMMV) About the best those big rigs can manage is 8mpg and usually less.

BTW let me know if you find any diesel for $4 a gallon...it is running around $4.60 here and I am in a fairly cheap market...

Aaron

shortbus901

I'm "stranded in suburbia" and there is plenty of wildlife near us. I saw a bald eagle last week on one of my runs. It was gliding over all the people stuck traffic. Red-Tail Hawks are a dime a dozen around here. I can go 10 minutes down the road to a preserve (also one of our local MTB parks) where people have seen one of the few FL Panthers still roaming wild. This preserve as well as Alafia State Park (big MTB destination, about 15 minutes away) both have families of wild pigs, the aforementioned birds as well as Osprey (also a dime a dozen around the Tampa area), some sort of bobcat sized cat (nobody is 100% sure what these are yet), wild turkey, ducks, various turtles and gopher tortoises and the ever present Alligator which seems to inhabit every body of water larger than a mud puddle down here.

Don't get me wrong, I am as opposed to the habitat destruction as anybody and hate the cracker box neighborhoods popping up everywhere (one of the big reasons I want to leave this state) but to generalize all of suburbia and say it will be uninhabitable as many on here seem to do seems uninformed to me. Of all the people I know including my parents friends only about 3-4 of them (attorneys) work downtown. Everyone else works in the burbs or outlying areas. I may think that the duplicate everything within a few miles of my front door is a bit ridiculous but the fact remains that it is there and I can walk, ride or run and find 99% of what I need within 2 miles. My commute to work (12 miles one way) takes me past acres and acres of small farms which grow strawberries in season and all sorts of other produce the rest of the year (farming is year round down here). I also have approx .25 acre with my own little citrus grove (lemons, limes, various oranges and what seems to be an ever bearing Ruby Red Grapefruit) and an ever expanding garden. If all these doom and gloom scenarios come to pass I'd rather have a bit of land (small as it may be) to grow stuff on than be stuck in a downtown area dependent on shipments from outside.

I guess the point I'm getting at is that not all of suburbia is a complete wasteland. Increasingly that may be the case but I live in an established mid-80's era planned suburban neighborhood, in an average house not a mcmansion. I have a 50+ yr old oak tree hanging over my garage and driveway and a nice stand of pine trees across the street. The Alafia river is a short walk down to the end of my street (also shaded by old oaks) and I have two premier mountain bike parks within 15 minutes of me. If the stuff hits the fan with a few infrastructure improvements this area is very livable car free.

JeffS

But how does a non-cyclist get from your house to work 12 miles away?

No, all suburban houses or neighborhoods aren't bad, but that doesn't mean everyone can live that way - at least not without having to drive most places.

Density is simply not high enough to support nearby jobs and stores for everyone, much less transit if everyone's on an acre+.

Land might definitely come in handy, but only if you know how to grow something other than fescue.

shortbus901

Become a cyclist? 12 miles isn't a bad ride at all. I've done it a few times and if it weren't for the unpredictability of when I may have to run to Miami, Orlando or elsewhere I'd do it a lot more, especially during the winter (that probably sounds crazy to some of you ).

The transition won't be easy (or possible for many people) but those that are capable can find ways to do it, those that aren't will have to move closer to work or just drive more fuel efficient cars. short range electric cars strike me as a great alternative if they were widely available. I've also been seeing a lot of Smart cars lately, it's disappointing that they only get 40 mpg but it's a step in the right direction.

I realize it can't support everyone, I was just stating that for the average person in decent health who is already out here most areas at least around here are pretty car free friendly with the possible exception of jobs. All that stuff that is within 3-4 miles of my doorstep is also within 3-4 miles of the doorstep of anybody in any of the neighborhoods in the area. I can go to north Tampa where I used to live and find 3 Publix's, 2 Sweetbays, a Sprawl-Mart, Target ...etc... It's ugly and generic looking but it's there nonetheless. Same deal with the wildlife. We had a family of red-tails in that neighborhood and yet another great MTB park with a 7 mile paved loop just down the street. Pigs, turkeys et al included.

I don't know how it is around you but down here my (not quite) .25 acre lot is pretty big compared to most of the newer tract neighborhoods. Some houses are on acre lots but they are few and far between for the most part. As for the greenthumb, mine was brown last year. A few books and some web searches later and I have a garden and a grove. Anybody can learn to do that.

Change will come no matter what and there are a lot of things that will have to accompany that including building up instead of out but I really don't see a mass abandonment of the areas that (unfortunately) make up a large percentage of the housing in the country. I think things will just go more local including jobs.

Lamplight

He told me his truck wasn't running quite right, so he was only getting about 4mpg. A year ago another truck driver was telling me it to a little over $600 to fill up his truck, but I didn't notice if the tanks were as big. That's a big difference!

Tabor

Yes and no. I ride 12 miles one-way in my morning commute, but statistically people won't ride more that 5.0 miles one way to work.

gz_

A more LCF article today:

On page 2:

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/24/business/24gas.html