folder fanatic

Summery
https://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?a=158497&c=44671

Full Report
https://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?&a=237507&c=44597

The above article attempts to divide the serious commuter/utility cyclist into 4 types. The types are created out of the foundation fear of all cyclists: You have to be brave to ride a bike because of all those huge bone crushing tanks in the forms of autos & trucks zooming around oblivious to anything but themselves & their own little world! The saddest thing of all....this perception is correct. Every time I venture out on one of my bikes, I feel like I am risking my life and limbs than if I chose another form of transportation (mainly drive in my own metal and glass protected cocoon) or simply give up and stay home if I can. How sad.

Here are the 4 types and how many lay claim to each in Portland OR
(these figures could be easily transposed onto any other major city or town in the North America):

• [*]
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• [*]
• [*]

Keep in mind that this is Portland OR! A supposed very bike orientated city. Why do hese figures appear to reflect my native anti bike, car-centric Los Angeles far more? Or perhaps cycling there is more of a image thing than an actual practice? Or something is considered still a prime weekend warrior (and young male) activity-which puts off everyone else that is not born or gifted in this way? Perhaps all of you can make sense out of senselessness.

chandltp

I guess I'd have to be in the "Enthused and the Confident" group. If cycling facilities were separate and equal, I'd be in the "interested but Concerned" group. However, I've never seen such a separate but equal facility so I have no desire for substandard bike routes.

Roody

There are only a few traffic situations that concern me. I don't like freeway merges onto high speed arterial surface streets. I don't like to cross more than 2 or 3 lanes to make a left turn. I don't like blind entrances onto streets (like an alley or driveway) even when speeds are low.

Through reading and experience, I have learned how to deal with these tricky situations. I don't like them, but I do them when I have to.

More to the point, I don't think that cycling is inherently dangerous. Motorists are not out to get us. Almost all of them are driving safely and responsible. I have traffic cycling skills and attitude that make me safer.

The OP has posted several times about how dangerous LA is, but some people think it's a great city for riding a bike. Sometimes I wonder if the geographical differences that people talk about are more the rider rather than the drivers?

Brontide

The categories are a little strange, but I would probably be in the strong and fearless category. Silly me presumed that would be for bike couriers or something.

wahoonc

I would consider myself Enthused and Confident. I do what I need to control my section of the road. However, many situations wouldn't be necessary if more attention were paid to road design to allow for ALL users.

Aaron

trafficcasauras

relative to other cyclist in my area, The Strong and the Fearless

cooker

I'm on the line between strong and fearless, and enthused and confident. I've been bike commuting since 1992, and am comfortable riding in any kind of traffic if necessary, but l prefer not to go on some of the busiest, high speed streets, if a more relaxed option is available. However it's more based on preference than fear.

What I actually fear more than cars, is ice. That's where I'm not fully in the hardcore group.

JustinMiller

Enthused and Confident for now. I'm really trying to completely eliminate the use of my own car, but getting to work is still a challenge. I think once I drop some weight and get stronger, I'll move faster, which will help (as will investing in bike shoes and locking pedals, and maybe a lighter bike). As it stands, I'm pretty committed to riding to work and even around town, but not sure about doing it on ice or snow, etc.

gerv 

I first heard about these categories from a talk by Portland bicycle consultants Alta Planning.

I was never convinced I could fit into any of these categories and proposed another that would fit me.

Something like "The old timid defensive riding cyclist"... .

folder fanatic

Why put up with that if you have other options? I don't know about you, but most people (some sooner, some later) who want to cycle give up after a spell of forced detours to avoid heavy fast traffic, daydreaming drivers, poor roads, and too much traffic. The statistics appear to support this even in supposed bike orientated communities like Portland OR. It is sad but true.

I did not say that drivers are out to get anybody. I said that they are simply too distracted playing with their gadgets. In a collision with a car, bikes generally are the losers. I don't care to be the loser. Who is going to volunteer to pay my hospital bills or my funeral? Anyone on this or other forums? I think not.

I did not say the whole of Los Angeles itself is dangerous to cycle. I said the area around my residence in Los Angeles is not safe to cycle (fast traffic, careless uninsured motorists, plus gang members who like to swipe bikes). I don't live out on the West side with their nice bike paths and police protection. Look at any map of Los Angeles. We are a huge place here. There are many recreational areas that are very nice to cycle on. I don't cycle for recreation or live near an area that caters to this activity. I use my bikes for transportation and utility only.

bragi

This is just about the silliest thing I've ever seen, and shame on you for promoting (yet again) fear regarding bicycling. I'm not a brave person by any stretch of the imagination. I'm deathly afraid of heights. When riding in a car going much faster than 60 mph, I get a little nervous. I throw food out way before the expiration date. But I am virtually never afraid while riding my bike. The reasons for this are simple:
1. I ride defensively, follow traffic laws, and generally use common sense.
2. BICYCLING IS NOT INHERENTLY DANGEROUS. (Yes, a few people die because they were riding a bike. But far, far more people die because they were eating bacon.)

Please, please, quit going on in this vein. Someone who's never been on a bike, but is considering it, might see the nonsense you write and be dissuaded from doing something that is almost as safe as walking and certainly safer than driving a car.

Pedaleur

Informed and rational.

folder fanatic

Ah, a very mad poster from Seattle attempting to shame me and take me to task. And probably never even been in Los Angeles. So you can forget about standing on your soapbox and attempt anything beyond cute little occasional idealistic hippie-dippie posts. I saw those idiot hippies in action (yes I am that old) now completely screwed up whatever is decent left in American society with their huge (around 1/4 of the population) Baby Boom numbers and fantasies of self-greatness (thanks to their war weary Greatest Generation parents spoiling them so much). Besides, look down at my signature. Do you have a up and running free to all comers an periodically updated Website series for 5 years now that assist the global bike community (not just your physical residence or even bothered to visit mine)? Do you design and sew bike accessories? Or even know how to sew? Or put up with gang members on a daily basis and come out of it unscathed? If you bothered to take a look at my sites, you will find that I have been heavily promoting cycling as an serious option to the automobile. I carefully documented my views, experiences and bike upgrades and restorations on these sites. And yes, I have done and will probably continue to go to and support major bike events like our Ciclavia or selected bike festivals. And actually talk to people and promote folding bikes as a real alternative that can be also placed inside a car with you-something that is very important here in L.A.

I guess it is time I clarify that I am physically visiting 2 cities that proclaim they are so great and upbeat with cycling very soon. I am not posting actual dates or even bothering bringing a bike with me when I do. I don't want to cloud my viewpoints dragging the Brompton with me all over the place or hiring an tour guide-although I did bought my Brompton from Folding Bikes West which has it's only store left that is now in Seattle. I will stop at a few random bikes shops while I am at these places (I hate tourist traps attractions) plus use public transportation when it seems to be the best option. I decided to visit Seattle WA and Portland OR for a few days each and see for myself all the hoopla on how great these bike communities are supposed to be. The results will be definitely posted on my Websites series for sure and maybe here if it suits me. These observations might not what you want to hear or me posting it at all, but I am still going to make my major life change decisions based on my own experiences after I return. I pretty much completed my online and library offline research on these west coast bike communities for the most part.

I invite you to do the same and actually visit both the city and county of Los Angeles and experience it for yourself, bike or not. Stay away from Hollywood, the West side (beach communities for the rich and famous), Disneyland, and other tourist traps. Ride in the middle of gangland (s) either on a bike or on a tour bus, eat crap food from vendors, and stay in the motels located in these same places and you can make your own judgement.

If you actually met me in person, you will see someone who is not physically like she was years ago (Weekend Warrior no more) and would like to sometimes drive as she sometimes grows weary of all the idiots on the streets surrounding her residence and simply wants a major change in her life now. There are many, many more like me than the Weekend Warriors types like you probably fall under-be sure to read the stats again. Instead of just talking about it, I am going to do something about it as was always my habit.

My father lived in Seattle in 1935 for about a year (long before most anyone here was even born). He returned to Los Angeles as he told me Seattle is far to rainy & damp there. So I would like to visit where he lived there too (it was on some wharf which was either heavily remodeled or torn down over the years). Perhaps during one of those rainy (or even snowy) periods to get a better idea of how great it is supposed to be up there.

Thank you.

Roody

Have you thought about posting this on the Safety and Advocacy subforum? They would probably be quite interested. I agree that there are probably a lot of people who don't ride because of their perception that cycling is dangerous, but those people might be more likely to visit the S&A forum.

DX-MAN

I find the spread of information like this to make about as much sense as the college professor who wrote a book for the stated purpose of "giving young black men a sense of racial identity", and then including in the book a description of where "racial identity" originated . . . with 'bigoted' (HIS WORD) German anthropologists. So, it came from bigots, yet you wish to promote it among your own race? And you're a COLLEGE PROFESSOR? No wonder the educational system in America is so bad....

A 'report' like this will be seen by two major groups -- those who already ride (like here, already picking their "home" categories), and those who don't, who will likely use this information to bolster their own unfounded biases.

It wasted as much time and effort as I did posting THIS.

folder fanatic

I thought about placing it in the Safety & Advocacy subforum. But the moderators might not like me putting up too many posts on the same topic on different forums. The largest deterrent for communing/utility cycling-and being Car Free-is a chance (I stress a chance) of a chance encounter with a careless driver. And the bike gathers dust in the garage or shed while the person gravitates to a preferred form of transport they secretly like far better.

folder fanatic

Oh and don't forget to read your local paper. This is what appeared today in mine: https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/07/alleged-road-rage-driver-who-hit-bicyclist-released.html. I do not like to read stories like this one. But it does serve to remind me of why people say they ride bikes here and what they believe and hear to be true. And it is up to the cyclist to take care of him/her self.

chewybrian 

Same here. Just because I ride without any bike trails, etc. doesn't mean there is any real danger. I'm willing to go a bit further to pick the best routes through the suburbs, and it's not so scary. Call me clever and stubborn, maybe.

I thought it odd that they took it for granted that facilities would lead to utility cycling. There are many nice MUPS around my state, but they are filled with recreational riders. The road racers would presumably be riding somewhere if the MUP was not there. The people on the upright 'comfort' bikes might well have been enticed to ride by the safety of the MUP. But, it does not encourage them, or anyone, as far as I can see, to start hauling groceries on the bike.

Roody

I finally read the study this thread is based on. It's pure garbage, scientifically speaking. Actually, it isn't even a scientific study at all. It's a description of "four thypes" of cyclists that the authors just dreamed up. They also dreamed up the percentages of riders whomn they claim belong to each category of cyclist. There was no effort to poll or survey cyclists and no comparisons were done. There was a lot of gobbledy-gook claiming that the imaginary categories and made up numbers were "vetted" by experts in "the field."

I could probably make up something just as bad in a few hours, and get some organization to pay me a lot of money for it, as long as my phony numbers said what the organization wanted them to say.

gerv 

Roody, you should get into consulting.

First rule of a consultant is to listen very closely to the client, then write a report telling them what they already know.

bragi

Mad poster from Seattle? Please don't make hasty assumptions. I'm not even remotely militant about cycling. I actually think bike lanes are kind of a bad idea. I just think bikes are a convenient way to get around, and good for a lot of social reasons besides. Actually, Seattle isn't militant about anything; that's why we've been wringing our hands about light rail for 40 years. And I've been to LA many times. I kind of like it, and wouldn't hesitate to ride a bike there. I especially like the weather and the immense shoulders. If I could get a job in LA (not likely right now), I would be totally car light, and love it.

You have a tendency to focus on the negative. This is not healthy, nor does it accomplish much of anything. I would work on that if I were you.

folder fanatic

I did not say that exactly. I meant more like this definition: ".....Feeling or showing strong liking or enthusiasm: mad about sports...." It is amazing how much human nature to twist things around has not changed with the dawn of the computer age. I guess it is true that social habits and graces has not caught up with technology quite yet. As for Seattle, I don't know much about it from personal experience. I heard much from other family members and friends. And it was not very good. So I cannot comment right now about it from personal experience as I never had any reason to visit or concern myself with the city before. I just hope it does not go the way L.A. has done.

That's nice. Which part? The West Side? South Bay? That is where most of the visiting parties & tourists go. I never see visitors coming to the locations where I have to bike. Remember I said Los Angeles is a huge place Google Map Presented Here Yet Again. If you bothered to look at the map, you will see that "Los Angeles" has a huge East side (I am describing a general terms here) where most of the population live-including yours truly. There are no Britney Spears, Charlie Sheens, or any other celebrities living around here. I doubt they even know this side of town even exist. Every time I used to shuttle out-of-towners around I get this surprised look about them (which you probably have on right now) that we are a huge region of multi climatic places around here (desert, seaside, mountains with snow) and I have to drive some distance for them to see where the celebrities actually live and hang out (kind of stupid I might add).

What of it? I write what I feel or am doing at that point in time. If you don't like it, don't read it. It is obvious that you did not even bother visiting my Website series anyway. No one is putting a gun to your back and forcing you. And what is your credentials and degrees which makes you an "expert" on human psychology? I probably more qualified to comment about that topic (very quickly degrees in Social Sciences & Education) and would never do so, as at least when I was in college, we were taught never to play doctor with other people's minds especially if we never met them personally. So, Dr. Bragi, stick with bikes.

I do want to extend a invitation to visit our East side with your bike. Ride along the Los Angeles River Bike Trail. Do bring a friend as someone who is not familiar with the area won't know that the paved path has a huge homeless camp camping next to it and the Avenues gang likes to run around there. The path mainly is used by the Weekend Warriors crowd. The rest of the cyclists? They still take Riverside Dr. to avoid trouble. Negative? Sure, but it is better than spending the rest of the day in the emergency room.

So as you can see, it is really important to pay attention and talk to the locals.

And for positive recent posts I did:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/751288-London-Calling-quot-Barclays-Cycle-Superhighway-quot-Video
plus: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/753623-A-How-To-Video-On-Strapping-Backpacks-Rucksacks-On-Bromptons https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/753151-quot-Apes-Reacting-to-LA-s-Carmageddon-quot-They-Are-About-To-Rise-Soon!

folder fanatic

The original post has already been transferred to my Website series as a starter to My Purpose For Even Bothering Posting & Creating/Maintaining A Website Series For Almost 5 Years Now. Sometimes (not always) I feel I have posted something I really like that should not disappear in the mire of half and long forgotten posts in the back pages of this and other forums. It gets a new life somewhere else.

Newspaperguy

From what I've seen, you get the cycling experience you expect.

There are some who seem to have a lot of close calls on the road. When they talk about cycling, they talk about the challenges and the dangerous drivers they encounter. Others in the same area have the occasional bad experience and seldom talk about dangerous driving or hazardous roads.

If I'm going to ride safely, avoiding the worst of the bad streets and behaving myself on other streets, I will expect a positive experience on the roads. Or, if convince myself the roads are dangerous, I'll experience bad drivers.

Yes, there are some risks, but I also am able to take measures to ride safely. That's just as true in my small town here as in much larger, much busier cities where I've ridden.

JustinMiller

I was wondering about street safety and all that today-I've decided that, instead of following the bike lane route that I got from Google, it would be faster to take arterials (which is what I would do in a car). Does anyone else do this, or does anyone advise against it? I'm doing about 18 miles one way to work, so time is important.