Suburban

So as far as you're concerned they aren't adults until 21? In that case, college and university should part of public education and young adults shouldn't be able to join the army or sign legal documents until they are 21. It seems when it's convenient to the masses, under 21 are "still children".

Roody

Whoa there. I said that parts of the brain aren't fully developed until age 21. This includes the pre-frontal cortex--crucial for judgment and planning and other faculties needed for safe driving. This statement is based on science, not ageism--and I also I also think driving age should be determined on a scientific basis, not political interests.

I did not say that I think the driving age should be raised. I don'[t know whether it should or not. Young people have other advantages (like faster reaction times) that might ompensate for incompletely developed brain regions. I'd love to see the research done that would support good policy on teen-age drivers.

It's weird that we spend so much money on cancer research, but much less on driving research--even though auto accidents are the leading cause of death among children and teens.

georgiaman

Honestly, I think that most of the research you guys have shown has maybe only been focused on the northern states. I have lived all over the south, and there has most certainly not been an increase in 20 somethings riding their bikes. Everyone drives a car unless you live on a college campus. I'm honestly the only person in my town of 50,000 people that rides their bike on the road. People ride their bike on the sidewalk but there is maybe only like a 100 of them. People in the south are just not used to bikes. Drivers are not used to them. Cops don't even know how to deal with them. Everyone still buys cars down here. There isn't a decent LBS in 100 miles from me. Also it is way to hot down here to ride a bike. The heat down here is humid. Not dry. If your ride your bike for more than 5 min you are breaking a sweat.
Things might be different up north, but down here the car is still the only way to get around for 20 somethings.

wahoonc

I live in the Deep South and ride year round, work outside too.

I do agree that cycling is an oddity down here compared to places like the Midwest. FWIW I live in the edge of the Sandhills of NC, but have spent several years working inland from the Charleston, SC area. Rode to work there when I could. That is one of the few places I have EVER seen a heat index value of 8* at midnight! Air temps were around 86*F add the 8* value and it was a "feels like" 94*(34*C)...AT MIDNIGHT!!! Just to add insult to injury, we were working at an aluminum smelter plant and the inside temps were pushing 135*

I always hydrate well, ride slow and wear cool loose clothing.

Aaron

SweetNightmare

Greetings from Texas, the land of 100+* through the whole summer, little rain, and hardly any "winter" to speak of! I haven't gotten my bike yet, it's on layaway at Performance Bike, but let me say I'm not looking forward to biking this summer! Hopefully I work up my heat tolerance, but due to my easily burned skin, I'll need to cover my arms. o.o

Roody

Sunblock and lots of water! I hope y'all have a cooler summer this year, and the proper amount of rain for a change.

Suburban

This is a very general thing. You'll still see variations from person to person. Similar issues exist at the other end of the scale for elderly drivers. You really need to look at people on a case by case basis as people mature/age at different rates. If you are a legal adult at 18, you should be given full rights and responsibilities of an adult at 18. Unless we're going to look at a rough study the decline in brains in the elderly and make broad laws for all people over a certain age and decide they shouldn't drive.

wahoonc

Sometimes you have to use averages and statistically the information that Roody is providing is correct. Yes they need to look at individuals, but who is going to pay for the cost? Not me as a taxpayer, driving is supposed to be a privilege, so let the individual pay for their assessment, but then you open up a whole new opportunity to scam the system.

Aaron

Roody

I'd like to see more research done on this topic, and then have some logical policy changes. With the driving simulators available today, this shouldn't be too difficult to accomplish. Like Aaron said, it might not be feasible to test every teen ager in the world, so we might have to settle for the use of averages in determining safe minimum and maximum driving ages. But if it results in saving dozens or even hundreds of young lives, I would be for changing the ages.

ubringliten

https://www.contracostatimes.com/tri-...-bicycle-peace

Here's an uplifting article today posted by a female teenager. I give her lots of credit to ride her bike to school. We need more young ones like her.

kookaburra1701

I think this is absolutely the case. I'm in that demographic (I graduated from college right as the economy crashed.) I'm the only one from my group of friends (and that included several physics/Computer Science majors) who has discretionary income, and that's because I went back to school, and learned a technical trade. Everyone else is either waiting out the recession in academia, or struggling alongside other people with advanced degrees in $10/hour jobs.

It's also because, while there are some auto-enthusiasts (and I'll admit, I do enjoy a well-made machine that goes VROOOOM) most would rather spend money on things like electronics. I'm car-light right now, but if I had to choose between my car and my internet connection/computer, I'd ditch it without a second thought. I'm pretty confident most of my friends would make the same choice.

Mos6502

It's actually one of the better states for cycling in weather wise. Although I do use a moped in the hottest months and even then the heat can be tough if you're not moving.

As for the original topic, I think a lot of the younger generations are wising up to the problems of living beyond your means, and for anybody under say 30, buying a new car is beyond their means, heck for most people buying a new car will be beyond their means at any point in their life.

Second more people are seeing car ownership as a chore and a waste of money, rather than something useful or fun. There are simply better things for kids to spend their money on than driving.

That and this generation which is coming or age right now has basically been royally screwed out of everything their parents took for granted. Most of the people I went to college with are either unemployed or stuck in some retail job. Even the people who are working in their field of study have been doing little work and seeing no advancement whatsoever.

My "real" job is only part time, and I have had to take on retail to make any money, and the sad thing is that means I'm doing better than most of the people I knew in school.

So there's no interest, and there's no money.

Roody

I wonder how many of these young people come from familes that were foreclosed on within the past 5 years? That experience might make you a little leery about buying a car on credit.

kookaburra1701

And some of us fell for the predatory practices that credit card companies started using on college campuses in the 2000's. I wasn't burned as hard as some people, but just the thought of having a credit card makes me feel physically sick. I climbed out of that hole, I don't want to fall back in.

Of course, since I'm debt free (except for student loans, which I'm paying off ahead of schedule) I have crap (read: no) credit so corps have the option of charging through the nose for things. Arrrgh.

bamboopiper

Just some more anecdata here. I'm a millienial. The reason I don't have a car (even though I'm living rural right now and there might as well be no bus for me for as much as I'm able to take it) is because I can't afford it. Even a used car would be $250-350/month, with $100 for insurance and commuting would probably put me over $200/month in gas. If I can afford that, I can afford to pay rent and live in the city where it might be easier to get around (getting a place around $700/month wouldn't be difficult at all). I don't have any college debt (thank goodness) but many of my peers do, and most of their debts are around $20k. (I graduated in 2004, but to date, still have not had a job in my field, engineering. I might as well have gone for that BFA for all the job offers I have.)

I'm not buying a house for the same reason either. It's too much money to put in and by the time I save up a significant down payment, I will be back to being priced out again. Lifetime renter, right here.