wolfchild

Hey, don't dismiss hang gliders. I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a new transportation trend in the near future amongst LCF folks, or new millennials... Think about it. If you live in a high rise building in a large city you can just jump from the roof top and hang glide to work and park your hang glider on another roof top, without using any fossil fuels...No traffic to contend with and no pollution.

joao_pimentel

I confess, mea culpa, it is true what you ironically said. I didn't get such information by official statistical agencies, just because I never found it. Portuguese statistical agency doesn't have it nor Eurostat. It is data that statistical agencies do not bother to gather. Then, we need to go through other reliable means.

Though, despite your own case being very important to consider for sharing ideas and opinions, statistically speaking is nothing but a sample.

Peace and bikes

Roody

What are WAGs? (Presumably not wives and girlfriends.)

Smallwheels

The inventor of the Segway and creator of the company is American Dean Kaman. Jim Heseldon was the man who purchased the company. He is the one who crashed and died.

https://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...-segway-crash/

The lack of success of the Segway is a marketing failure. With the right message and a little bit of money I bet this company could sell millions of these and the world would realize just how great such a vehicle is. Dean Kaman was right when he said this could change transportation in the 21st century.

As cyclists we know that we can get around cheaper but it also requires effort. Millions upon millions of people know about bicycles. Of those people many of them know that a bicycle could be used to transport them somewhere, like to the store or to work. Yet look how few will actually use a bicycle. Instead they buy expensive cars for their three mile average daily trips. Even cheap used cars will cost more than Segways over time.

Segways are best suited to urban areas. They aren't for everybody. They weren't designed for use everywhere. They are perfect for the city dweller who needs to get around quickly without the use of a car and without using a lot of effort. All of us probably know people who wouldn't walk to the store if it were just three hundred yards away from their home. These are the people who would benefit the most using a Segway. I would rather them using a Segway than using a car.

The number of obese people in the USA is proof enough that bicycles just aren't wanted for transportation and that motorized vehicles are wanted. Segways could replace millions of cars and keep the less fit people happy by giving them a cheaper motorized alternative to cars.

wolfchild

There are E-bikes, scooters, mopeds out there which are a lot more practical and useful for urban transportation then a Segway. Why would an obese person with health problems spend $5000-$6000 dollars on a Segway when they can get a moped or an E-bike for a lot cheaper ??

Smallwheels

Why does anybody buy a Toyota over a Daihatsu? Why does anybody buy a BMW over a Toyota?

Segways are small enough to be brought inside buildings with ease. Bicycles are much longer. Perhaps a folding e-bike with very small wheels and a tiny low range battery would be almost as small on the floor. Mopeds are very big. Motor scooters are too. Bringing either inside an office might be very difficult.

Segways do have a rider weight limit but I don't recall the number. The severely obese will need to use an alternative device.

Segways have a mode setting that allows the user to bring them up stairs. It adds power to the wheels to help climb them while the owner tugs on the handlebars. Any bicycle or moped like electric vehicle would be more difficult to get up stairs.

Smallwheels

I think the earlier posts about car costs are very relevant to this discussion. One reason people would choose a Segway for their transportation needs would be to save money. Knowing the costs of operating a car and comparing them to a Segway are totally germane. Even twenty year old used cars have a cost. It is even better to compare Segways with old cars because the costs of replacing and operating a used car might still be more than that of a Segway. The cheapest new car in the USA costs $11,900.

I-Like-To-Bike

Wild Donkey Guesses, more or less.

Rowan

This is where the whole thing goes awry. Go check the number of new cars on the road versus the not-new cars. I can guarantee that the figures being thrown about by our European statistical expert are based on new car purchases, and ignore entirely the running costs of a secondhand vehicle that may be 10 years old. As has been pointed out by ILTB and prathmann, the costs of running those vehicles is much less and entirely affordable. I would suggest that ILTB and prathmann's examples are more accurate for a large number of western motorists than some "official figures".

Rowan

You said "typical" not average in the post I referenced. Thank you also for confirming the intent of my post by saying the western world is very wealthy.

Simply by saying that the average western motorist puts in between 1/4 and 1/2 of their net income to pay their car bills you are confirming my observation that you believe the "average western motorist" is too poor to own a motor vehicle.

And certainly, I do NOT spend even a quarter of my net income each week on running a vehicle.

Roody

In America, people spend on average 19 % of their income on transportation--overwhelmingly cars, of course. There is an inverse relationship between total income and proportion of income spent on transportation. (Poorer people spend a bigger share of their money on transportation.)

Roody

Most people in poor health would be incapable of using a moped or e-bike. An electric wheelchair would be a more feasible alternative to the Segway.

I-Like-To-Bike

The owner's manual recommends that lifting be done by 2 people. Good advice since no model has been offered by Segway for the last 8 years that has weighed less than 100 lbs. Previously there was a stripped down model that weighed in at a svelte 70+ pounds. All these models are just the thing for "easy" manhandling up and down steps, curb, obstruction, or into a vehicle trunk.

Rider plus cargo weight limits are 100 pounds minimum, 260 pounds max. The older stripped down model had a 210 pound maximum rider plus cargo weight limit. Just the thing for a skinny geek.

What model has the step climbing mode? The manuals online don't seem to mention this mode.

Machka 

+1

I suspect the standing thing with the Segways would be a turn-off too. I've never used one, but every time i see one, it strikes me how tippy they look.

Machka 

If this discussion is going to go the automobile vs Segway direction ...


Cost:
Segway = $5-6000
Automobile = well, I could pick up a functional automobile for $2000 if I wanted. (Yeah, yeah ... operating costs, depreciation, blah, blah, blah)

Functionality:
Segway = limited range, limited carrying space, limited number of passengers
Automobile = Rowan and I can toss a couple bicycles in the back and drive thousands of kilometres to a nice place to ride. Depending on the vehicle, we might even be able to sleep in it on the way or if not, we could carry camping gear with us. Back at home, we could load it up with furniture, household supplies, bicycles, and a month's worth of groceries

All Weather Usage
Segway = the ones I've seen are open air, I'm not even sure if they are equipped with lights. You wouldn't be very comfortable using one of those to get across town when it is howling wind and pouring rain
Automobile = equipped with heaters and lights, and of course, covered



You can't really compare the two ... they just simply don't do the same things.

Rowan

I don't deny that poorer people will spend more of a proportion of their income on transportation. But that transportation applies to bikes and buses as much as anything else. We've (collectively) have had discussion on other threads on how bus fares can mount up if someone has to travel a long distance to get to work.

In the context of this discussion, the poorest are not going to be owning a motor vehicle. They have virtually no reason to travel.

When I think about this, trying to work out the cost of a motor vehicle for the "average" or "mean" or "median" person is not as simple as some calculators might imply. The point is that someone who earns $2,000,000 a year will likely think nothing in riding about in a $250,000 motor vehicle and all the costs associated with that. Someone who earns $2,000 a year may well be riding around on a $25 bicycle or walking in a $25 pair of shoes. It becomes very difficult to compare unless the worth of the individual/household, and how they manage their financial affairs (low or high debt gearing, asset rich or poor, high liquidity) are also considered.

Yes, people do make poor decisions when buying a motor vehicle that may or may not suit their needs and financial status. But that is a case of "woe is me" and not specifically the fault of the motor industry.

I mean, getting back to the original discussion, in my opinion, taking a Segway would not be a practical move for me. I would have little to no use for it other than as a trinket. I likely would not be able to service it myself, and I wouldn't have the room to store it without getting rid of one or more of our bicycles.

On the other hand, $3,000 would allow me to fuel up the van and expand my horizons with travel; or buy a new bicycle such as a Bike Friday; or save for a rainy day or something that we might really need.

Motor vehicles are often offered a prizes in big national promotions. I sometimes wonder what I would do if I won one. I calculate the value after it has been driven off the lot, and figure that if I could sell it and get that amount, I would be front, avoid having to pay additional registration fees and very high insurance costs, and spend some of the cash on a much cheaper, used vehicle... or yet more bicycles.

Machka 

Some additional reading regarding the Segways ... comments from several years ago ...

https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...egway-ice.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...xt-segway.html

Machka 

That topic was sort of touched on here ... https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...-free-car.html ... but might make an interesting new topic.

Smallwheels

Segways are not and never were intended to do everything a car could do. They are people transporters for inner city dwellers. It would be better to compare them to bicycles and motor scooters. It is true they are intended to replace cars but only for the purpose of transporting an individual around a congested city. Most cars hold four of five people and three or four seats are usually empty. Add in minivans and mid to large size SUVs and six to seven seats remain empty while that two to three ton vehicle is moving around.

The Segway is more efficient for its intended purpose. It uses fewer materials and much less fuel when moving an individual around town.

Steve Jobs created the iPad as a new and breakthrough device. He said it wasn't intended to replace a full size computer. It had its niche and its goal was to do the things it does better than either a computer or a smart phone. The iPad has its niche. So does the Segway.

Anybody who could go car free and use a bicycle could also do the same thing with a Segway. The only things a Segway can't do are operate in snow and it isn't recommended for wet roads. We know that roads can be a little slippery when wet but it isn't that bad when one is careful. I bet a Segway could handle regular wet roads just fine but maybe not metal expansion joints or man hole covers.

Machka 

Exactly ... then why are people here suggesting that they could replace cars? Why are they comparing the cost of Segways with the cost of automobiles?

The original question was $3000 or a Segway ... automobiles weren't part of that question at all.

Roody

I thought that the sentiment here was almost unanimously against the Segways. I think your husband was one person who was comparing them to cars, so maybe you could ask him why.

Machka 

We are against Segways ... and it was joao_pimente in post 45 where the automobile/Segway comparison started ... and again in post 52 where he said, "segways are even faster than automobiles". The automobile/Segway comparison continued from there.

wahoonc

It can be interesting... I had a friend that was basically a minimum wage worker win a Hummer that Mountain Dew was giving away at the time. Before he could take possession he had to pay taxes on it. He could not afford to do that, so his mother loaned him the money and it became her vehicle. He couldn't afford to pay to operate the beast either. My wife has won a couple of cars over the years (none recently) in both cases she kept them and drove them for several years.

I was offered a "free" truck the other day, but turned it down. Don't need another one and this one was going to need too much work to make it viable as a "flip".

Aaron

Rowan

I didn't start the discussion about comparisons with cars. But I am quite happy to join in when it gets going.

I have pointed out that Segways are impractical and I stated well back in the thread that I wouldn't touch one -- and I will state now that even if it was offered to me for free I wouldn't take it, let alone when $3,000 is offered as an alternative.

joao_pimentel

The average western citizen is rich, though owning and running a car is expensive. Rich or poor is relative and everyone does with their money what they wish.