roadfix

Why? I've never heard this before.

lutz

Somehow I do not trust the "safety eject mechanism" of the bike pedals. Compared to ski bindings they seem rather primitive. That is why I am using the platform side on somehow risky descents.
I have no data to support any beneficial effect of doing so,however.

banerjek

Especially at high speeds, I'd rather be clipped in. If your feet fly off the pedals at the wrong time, it could be dangerous.

Having fallen multiple times with and without clipless, even when you go down I think clipless is safer.

roadfix

+1

yeamac 

I assume you still mean at high speeds. At low/no speeds, falling with clipless probably wouldn't have happened if you were on platforms. I can think of 2x where I fell with clipless where if I was on platforms I wouldn't have fallen. Bebops are a little harder to get free from compared to other clipless, I think. They have 19 degrees of float, so you got to get past that point to unclip.

lutz

WELL, I would prefer my body to dissociate entirely from the bike in case of a crash.
I am not going to "accidently" slip of the pedal in such a situation.

banerjek

When I first got clipless, I think I fell over once or twice in my SPD's, and also once in LOOK's. I don't count falling this way as a crash.

Except in an impact crash, I think it is beneficial to stay clipped in. The brunt of the fall goes on your thigh, hip, and shoulder and your hands stay on the bars. The result is road rash, but no real injury. If you're not attached to the bike, you could put a hand down and break your arm, get your feet in your wheels, etc. I haven't had a serious impact crash on clipless yet, but I'm sure I'd pop right out if I really had to.

jonestr

sounds like you may want to do a bike fit with a cleat fit as well and move to some lower float pedals when you get your mountain style shoes. In my experience all of that float is there to make up for a poor bike fit that lets your knees flail and allows you to spend zero time time getting the cleats rotated properly. The downside is that you need to move your ankle a great deal to get unclipped. Also, you might want to work on your trackstands as they would allow you to stay clipped in all of the time.

roadfix

I think you need to try another type of clipless pedals. Some of the easiest ones to get in and out of are the SPDs. Eggbeaters are also very popular and very easy to click out of. They all have recessed cleats so they are extremely walkable. I sometimes commute to work wearing my mountain/touring shoes and don't even bother changing. I wear them all day long while at work.
I believe the pedal system you're using now is giving you too many problems.

Bacciagalupe

The problem is that it's not a very accurate tool. My theory is that the stops and starts and walking around will throw off those stats. Separately, a single ride is too low a sample size. Unfortunately the only genuinely objective way I know of (so far) to figure it out is with a power meter.

But if you're riding at a pace you like with platforms, like the feel and/or convenience, and climb well enough to satisfy you, I wouldn't worry about it.

yeamac 

I don't have a power meter but do have a garmin edge 305 with heartrate/cadence. Ride stats for the two comparable rides were (going from memory, but I believe I've got these numbers down, at least):

Ride 1 with clipless pedals
Average Speed: 17.3mph
Avg. Cadence: 89
Avg. Heartrate: 136

Ride 2 with platforms
Average Speed: 17.6mph
Avg. Cadence: 86
Avg. Heartrate: 127

Both rides started with a 5:30ish start in the dark, running lights for the first 1:30 in the city meant lower cadence and speed. At the first highway intersection we came to on both rides we were at exactly 57 minutes into the ride. The rides were literally 10 seconds apart. How's that for consistency between rides?

The routes were varied just a little bit in that on Ride 1 we bypassed a town via a loop and therefore had non-stop riding, while Ride 2 went through that town for several miles and had more stops and starts, which is probably one of the reasons why the average cadence for ride 2 is lower.

And I have my Garmin set to not record data once my speed gets under 4MPH, so as to only record actual riding data, and not my stopped or walking time. But even with a few extra stops and starts of one ride to the next, over 125 miles and 7 hours of riding time, the few extra slowdowns and accelerations are not going to affect the averages in any meaningful way. Maybe by a tenth of a MPH.

So, I think it is a safe statement to say that platforms didn't slow me down any, even considering all the variables. I expected to see a decrease in average speed with platforms, which I did not.

Even when I got my clipless pedals and shoes, I remember another friend (who doesn't ride a whole lot) admire them on my feet on one of our rides together and say "Those must make you 1-2 MPH faster." Guess what, tubby, your engine really is slower! (He's not here, so I can say that, but don't tell him I said that, would ya?) But that's the misconception that goes around with clipless pedals, which is the reason for my original post.

Thanks for the feedback on other pedals/cleats. If I give clipless a try with my new PI Seek walkable shoes at some point in the future, I'll have to try another pedal system, like eggbeaters or SPDs. I'm going to do the platform thing for a while. In the spring I ride with a group where everyone dons clipless pedals. I'm one of the stronger riders, so I'd like to see their reaction when I show up in regular platforms instead of a clipless system and they struggle to keep up.

Machka 

I use these pedals:

Six jours

Well, there's no question that a good clipless setup is more efficient for trained cyclists. (A proper toeclip-and-strap setup is just as efficient, BTW, but essentially dead outside of track racing.)

After going back and forth between clipless and clips-and-straps with non-cleated shoes, I've finally gotten comfortable with the latter. I had a very hard time giving up the "free speed" of clipless, and it also took quite a while to get used to limiting my upward and backward movements when accelerating, climbing, etc.

I also tend to dismiss complaints about being unable to unclip from a clipless system. It simply isn't that hard. I've met all sorts of incompetents and mental defectives who could unclip, so for folks who are avoiding clipless solely or largely on that basis, I think they're making a mistake.

For myself, it was comfort in walking, and not looking like "Bicycle Man!" while off the bike, that led me to shift from clipless. Yes, there are systems that are almost like street shoes, but none that completely did the job, and none that kept the metal cleats completely off the hardwood floors without massive knobs/cleats.

I finally found happiness with Carnac Carlit leather shoes with rubber soles, MKS touring pedals with teeth, and toe clips and straps. This is extremely comfortable, walks like a street shoe, and still allows me some upward/rearward effort even with the straps comfortably loose. And yes, I've lost some efficiency, and my pedal stroke is not as good as it once was. If speed was important, this setup would be a mistake, but as a series of trade-offs, it's about perfect.

Take off the clips and straps? I don't see any reason for it. It wouldn't be any more comfortable or convenient, but it would be an even further reduction in efficiency and, IMO, somewhat dangerous, as there is nothing to prevent the foot from coming off the pedal. As a kid on a BMX bike, that was a regular occurence, and I'm sure I still have the shin scars from it.

yeamac 

The way I read the article at Rivendell, I believe the author would argue the opposite would be true -- that an untrained cyclist would be more efficent with a good clipless system to be forced to go in circles, while a trained/experienced cyclist knows how to pedal in circles and does not benefit from a clipless system in terms of efficiency. One may or may not agree, but at least it is questionable.

I appreciate the rest of your comments and your feedback. I don't know if I completely agree with everything in the above paragraph. As to comparing yourself to when you were a kid, I would think there is no comparison to your cycling skill and experience now as an adult vs. that when you were a kid. A 20" BMX bike just begs to go over dirt hills, gravel, curbs, lending itself to a greater likelihood of accidents, while most road cyclists try to avoid anything but smooth pavement.

Regarding convenience, I don't see how having to find a specific spot on the bottom of your shoe, or having to flip a pedal and put your foot in a hole is any more convenient than just stepping on a pedal in no specific spot. Compare that to contact lenses (clipless or straps) vs. Lasik surgery (platform pedals). I can tell you from experience that Lasik surgery is a heck of a lot more convenient than daily wear contact lenses, for the simple reason I don't have to mess with putting contacts in or taking them out every day. Not to mention with clipless road shoes, which I am coming from, those are a heck of a lot more inconvenient walking off the bike.

Regarding efficiency, with platforms one can move their foot into different positions on the pedal, using different leg muscles for different activities like sprinting, climbing, or just trudging along. The Rivendell article talks about this. Being attached to the pedal is certainly an advantage in wet conditions or powering through a short, steep hill, but with my regular pedaling, I didn't see any efficiency benefit to be attached to the pedal vs now riding on platforms.

Two more things to consider: comfort and cost. I think it is just more comfortable to be able to move your foot around on a pedal and use different muscles and have different pressure points than to be fixed in one position.

My platform pedals cost me $10. My shoes and clipless pedals cost $300.

So now you can see why I titled this thread My newfound joy and freedom with platform pedals.

I want to point out that the reason I posted this in the long distance forum is that I am talking about what is best for me for my long rides. If one races I definitely think clipped in is the way to go. My riding partner rocks toe clips and straps. Its just a matter of personal preference. At this stage, platforms are about perfect for me. Until I came across that Rivendell article recently, I would have never seen in print a point of view talking about platforms being a good alternative. Everything I have read in the past couple years looks down on platforms as something that is inferior and only suited for a child's bike. But after experiencing them, I have a new perspective on platform pedals and wanted to share it.

yeamac 

I discovered a negative with platforms yesterday. I pedaled through a sharp corner (greater than 90 degrees) and ended up striking the pedal on the ground. Almost lost control of the bike. The Bebop pedals I used to use have awesome pedal clearance, and not once did they strike the ground through a turn. So now with my platforms on sharp turns I have to remember to keep the inside leg high.

roadfix

You know there are low profile pedals that help minimize pedal strike.

roadfix

I agree.

I can also see people hesitating to go fully clipless in urban riding and even in heavy traffic. After reading through countless threads about riders not liking clipless pedals I've pretty much come to the conclusion that most simply lack the confidence in using them.

In mountain biking I went through the same thing. I was sacred as hell to go clipless for many years riding my bike on narrow singletracks and technical terrain. Eventually, I was able to make that transition.
Actually, mountain biking and fixed gear riding eventually forced me to learn to click out of either foot instinctively and this skill carries on to road riding effectively. I don't click out of the same foot every time when I come to a stop.

bkbrouwer

I can't hardly stand to go to the grocery store without my clipless...and it's a quarter of a mile away!

roadfix

You should be using your beater/errand bike with platforms for that...

Wanderer

Clipless pedals are a godsend, for people with bad knees or other bad joints. Keeps your feet where they are supposed to be, without fear of slipping off.

Whenever I stop, for even a little bit, (red light) my knee stiffens up, and the clipless keeps me attached, until it loosens back up. Then I'm good to go.

Clipless is the only way I can attain any kind of cadence, which for me is now up to 80. It's not that unusual to see the 90's now. If I ride to the store in tennies, I'm lucky to attain 45 RPM.

Considering I started in the 50's, that's a big improvement.

I even, surprisingly, found myself spinning at 119 the other day, and my legs didn't fly off!

bkbrouwer

It is my beater/errand bike! I HAD to put clipless on it!

fuzz2050

Now that's an idea, except you have it backwards, your right foot should be clipped in and your left on a platform. Why? because that's what I do, and I must be right.

roadfix

I would like to have the last word regarding clipless pedals.

Crast

mmm. Campus pedals are a great option, used them for years with a mountain SPD shoe. I loved being able to unclip one foot, pedal on a different part of my foot for a bit to give it a rest, or sometimes when I'm in trafficky sections, or on super steep climbs thinking I'm about to bail out fast, yet have the ability to clip in whenever.

Hocam

I'll make a few pro-clipless arguements I haven't seen mentioned here.

Where I live there are plenty of short, steep (10-20% grade) hills that you can either spin and suffer slowly over, or muscle them and get over the top without losing much breath. I find hard, short efforts much easier on clipless because I am not limited to just my quads, but can use all the muscles in my leg to turn the pedals over.

While not common randonnuering practice, simply being able to use all your leg muscles instead of just one is a great advantage in terms of injury prevention and reducing fatigue. You are no longer over-developing your quads to the extent platforms will. The problems with injuries and clipless pedals seem to have more about a poor bike fit and less about the actual pedals. Additionally, there have been many long steep climbs where after pedaling in circles in my lowest gear at 50 rpm to stay below LTHR, my quads did not feel completely dead because the other muscles in my leg were assisting them.

As for comparing average speeds with and without clipless pedals, you would have to repeat the experiment multiple times on the same course. Doing it on a different course when your body is more or less recovered tells nothing. Average speed is already easily influenced by wind, temperature and your own body so many experiments with someone getting the full benefit of clipless (no pedaling squares) are needed.