unterhausen

I don't really see how either of the incidents in this year's raam are in any way indicative that there is a problem with the race. I have some reservations about the solo race. The team race looks like something I'd like to try.

Homeyba

They don't.

mattm

Going ultralight on a Rambouillet.... isn't that an oxymoron?

To the OP, I'd say do the self-RAAM in 3 weeks on whatever you're riding now, and if you make that then go ultralight and do the same ride over two weeks. I'd hate to see someone put all that money/time into a bike only to DNF halfway through the ride.. best of luck.

bmike

That was before he built up a new rig... sort of the same advice you're giving the OP.
And in the case of going ultralight... my kit can still shed some weight - but the biggest savings (as usual) would be in me...

And, for traveling like this - its not just about the weight. Its about getting things down to the essentials...




But yes, love the mix of the Riv and the push to go lighter.
So glad I put carbon levers on my IF.

mmeiser

First,

Ha! I can't believe how many people are po-pooing this idea!

They couldn't be more wrong on everything from the value of ultralight, the technology and what is humanly possible.

Pay absolutely no attention to the detractors. They know not what they say. :)

I think the idea of an unsupported RAAM (official or unofficial) is a superb idea and have been thinking along the same lines for the last couple years.

First of all I just read about this thread while doing the TransWisconsin.com, just got home here in Michigan from it yesterday evening so I couldn't respond sooner.

The TransWisconsin is a nice counterpoint because it's a 620 mile unsupported mountain bike race across Wisconsin from South to North. The winners did it just a hare over four days. They averaged 160+ miles a day on back roads and off-road. Their skills amaze me.

Lots of serious seasonal roads, atv trails, single track snowmobile trails, rain and hills. Lots of hike-a-bike. A couple roads that didn't exist, a navigational challenge and to top it all of a bridge that didn't exist requiring river fording or a 15 mile detour.

This was the Trans Wisconsin's first year so it was a true adventure. Expect it to be more polished next year but not easier. Next year btw I will take a well seasoned GPS so I can just focus on the riding. Also, I'll know the route. Tremendous advantage. :)

My setup for this was about 41lbs dry weight, 45lbs with water.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4615291196/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4659261666/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4719464109/

The bike itself, A Salsa Fargo weighs almost 30 of that 41lbs. It's not light, even for a mountain touring rig. My gear included absolutely everything including enough water capacity for up to 24 hours, water filtration, first aid, a couple days food, a stove, cook kit and change of food. Truly unsupported though I made ample use of everything from road side parks to the occasional motel. Unsupported racing like touring depends on adaptability and opportunism.

One of the winners as well as two others were riding titanium. One of the two winners also road a cross bike with 35mm though most were riding 26 or 29 by 2.1" or better. No idea how he did it on 35mm given the roughness of roads and terrain. He did blow a rim and had to make a side trip to find a replacement at a local bike shop along the route. Was definitely glad I had 29x2.1's and would consider going bigger given the amount of mud and sand.

Secondly, as we speak Matt Lee is winning the 2700 mile Tour Divide mountain bike race from banff canada to mexico down the great divide (for the eighth time or so). His record for this 2700 mile unsupported off road race is about 14 days. What's more his current carbon fiber rig weighs fully loaded 31lbs!

His full on mountain setup is as light as my own ultralight road touring rig. Absolutely amazing.

My own UL road rig:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4422555632/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4571522634/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4570910405/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2/4627565733/

So... the RAAM is just 3000 miles if I remember correctly.

So is it possible to do it in less then 14 days. Absolutely!

I'm no "racer" I consider myself "just some guy who likes to take long rides". As such multi-day rides, randonneering and even unsupported racing (or "un-racing" as I like to call it because I "don't race") are a natural progression of my riding.

So can the raam be done in 14 days or less unsupported. Absolutely. All that's lacking is people of the proper caliber to be attracted to the idea. The tech, gear and talent absolutely exists.

Can I do it... ha! almost certainly not in 14 days, nor do I care to go for such a record though I consider it set low. However I love the idea and am ready to go. All I need is the time and the route.

To be specific

1) Does anyone have any idea off hand where I can get a nice accurate GPX file of the route!? Perhaps a good map or google route?

I've otherwise considered doing the Adventure Cycling Associations southern tier in this manner.

Also, I've been looking for a good challenge this winter as I tend to have more time in the winter. I have quite a bit of winter riding experience and quite the love for it.

2) What do you all think? Could the RAAM route be done in the winter!?

Certainly this would be no record setter. We're talking perhaps 30 days if all goes well. But it would be fun and make for great drama, blogging and photographs. :)

The biggest hurdle would to a winter RAAM would be making it through the Rockies before they get bound up with snow.

The second would be the smokies would definitely be snow bound by the time I reached them. If I could get through the rockies going light I could do a mail drop with heavier winter gear before I got into the NE winter.

Would be a hellacious ride. Probably have to take a day or two off here and there just due being snow or storm bound, but hot damn it would be fun and most likely would be doable with only a 30-35lbs setup.

No doubt some will take this post as flame bait. I can hear the detractors now. Partly because they've already voiced their opinions here, but their arguments are just the same age old arguments that have been waged against ultralight backpacking and other forms of lightweight travel since we've broken away from the Victorian age of large scale expeditions.

Going light has redefined all forms of adventure over the last century and off-road touring, pack rafting, and backpacking are only the latest developments and incarnations.

What's more you truly haven't lived until you've done at least a few days touring on a fully self supported setup weighing in at around 30-35lbs. It is an unbelievable lightness of being both figuratively and literally. An amazing sense of freedom. I can and do make regular trips and days averaging 120 miles or more a day. This is not even a chore when traveling light and I expect now to increase that closer to a regular 140 or 150 miles a day this summer.

It is not however all about speed... going light is about having the energy and capacity to ride more hours if you like or the time to stop more to smell the roses, meet people and take side trips.

It's something as beautiful as being able to grab your touring bike and easily swing it over a fence or carry it up a hill or stairs.

UL road touring is even a completely different beast then backpacking. When UL touring in the U.S. you're almost never more then a stones throw from a gas station, a town or a house. Cell phone coverage is fairly reliable. Worst case scenarios such as blowing up a wheel mean at most 24 or 48 hours delay. Absolutely nothing you travel with is "essential" in the sense that you can't live without it or travel without it save the bike itself. The equation is not life or death it's "how unsupported do I want to go".

And on that not I tend to lean much more toward the conservative end of fully self supported then most. It's no mere credit-card touring. Indeed I like to keep required expenses down to about $10 a day just so I've always got room to splurge on anything from a nice restaurant to a hotel on occasion. For me it's all about the freedom to roam, artfully, skillfully and as quick or slow as I like.

The single best way I've heard it put by backpackers is: going ultralight is like going out for a sunday stroll and being able to simply keep going for days or weeks.

BTW, some other resources I highly suggest checking out.

UL biking photo sharing: https://www.flickr.com/groups/ultralightbiking/

Yahoo group: https://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/ultralightbiking/ - not that active

Bikepacking.net - home of ultralight off road / unsupported mountain biking discussions

If anyone has any other resources to share do tell.

Am seriously looking for a RAAM GPX file or fully detailed RAAM map.

unterhausen

check the RAAM site for maps. It's not too hard to take their web map and put it into mapping software. Here is a link to gps files

mmeiser

Thanks!

Don't have it on my Android Phone / Google GPS yet, but after some gps work i can get it there.

I see the RAAM route comes north into colarado, definitely to far north for any fall or winter attemps. At least not speedy attempts. Would turn into one heck of a snow bike requiring some studded snowtires specialized winter gear maybe even a snow bike. Would be a completely different type of ride. Bummer.

Perhaps I should consider a ultralight speedy attempt of the ACA southern tier instead.

unterhausen

after you get out of California on the RAAM route, it would be a problem in winter. I was following a rider and I was often curious about where they had stopped so I looked on google street view. In many of the locations there was snow.

Homeyba

I think you may be a little optimistic for a self supported race. I'm a little on the fence but I think it'll take longer.

You'll never get over the passes in Colorado in winter. Some of them are over 10,000ft. (Wolf Creek, La Veta and the other one I can't think of at the moment. )

Don't forget about all the nasty weather and winds you'll run into all the way across the US. The winds in the Midwest are bad enough in the summer! Concentrate on the mountains too much and you'll get seriously hurt in the mid west. Remember it's 1/3 of the distance across the US and it isn't necessarily easier than the mountains. I think attempting it in the winter would be a very big mistake. Riding on any narrow road in the country by yourself can be fairly dangerous but add limited visibility due to weather and it's a recipe for disaster. If you do something like this I'd stick to the summer where the bad weather is limited.

mmeiser

I couldn't agree more upon reviewing the route.

Of course one could ride it in the winter, but it'd be more like doing the iditarod. One might end up walking a few hundred miles in snow or even waylaid for days. Definitely not the way raam was intended.

Road Fan

What highways does the route take through Colorado? Country roads are actually quite well plowed in that state, if they're open. I'd be more worried about crossing the Midwest when major blizzards are possible. Ever been on a frozen Interstate in Nebraska? Scary.

unterhausen

I still wouldn't want to cross Wolf Creek in the winter. It got down in the 30's for some of the RAAM riders.

Maps are at this link

There is even a google earth flyover at that link, sounds like fun

Richard Cranium

Cyclists are a weird bunch. If you people can't see a problem with an event that has everyday people driving unfamiliar vehicles, on unfamiliar roads, all night long with little very little rest for ten days that what's the use? I mean this is weird......

JeffOYB

I take it that you're opposed to endurance and ultra cycling. And anything else beyond your skill level... ?

"Very little rest" is completely subjective. Do you mean "little rest" in terms of you or them?

I suspect that the riders in these events could pass safety tests just fine.

Even when Jure Robic gets nutty he can still safely handle his bike. And, of course, most hard-striving riders don't push as much as he does. These riders are adults. If they get too tired they rest until they're safe again. Their abilities are just developed (and genetically) beyond the typical. But all this seems obvious. So, maybe I'm missing your point?

I'd say that people shouldn't put others in positions of danger or put anything on them at all. We shouldn't make it more likely that someone will have to go out of their way to help us. I say that many sports people -- and businessmen!!! -- totally violate this standard of decency.

But I don't think that ultra riders necessarily are, or are worse than usual offenders. I'm pretty confident that a self-supported rider of ANY kind is by definition among the safer in any situation. Support brings on so many more issues -- complexity and the notion of needing help in the first place!

Armchair folks -- or even locals -- who say "you can't safely bike this pass in winter" are just begging for bikers to show them they can. They'll develop both the skills and equipment to defeat that naysaying just like they do so many others. Or at least they'll find the limits for themselves or the status quo. But that doesn't mean they'll be unsafe in so doing.

bmike

RC is anything but against endurance and ultracycling.
RAAM has become, on some levels, a sleep deprivation event. This includes the crew on some levels...

JeffOYB

Ah, OK.

I changed what I wrote so I don't overstate my case, then. But I left the gist of it.

I often hear the "sleep deprivation" label. It seems overly dismissive. Sure, sleeping less than WE usually do looks like part of it -- but who knows what they're used to -- and to an extent it's a skill area that can be trained. If they're a hazard, that's bad and they need to be pulled, stopped, etc.

An accident due to sleepy driver is by no means limited to or even more likely among RAAMers and crew. It's pretty common in general. It would be bad if there's a pattern there, though. I'd hope there's oversight plus commonsense responsibility going on. I mean, it has to be a legal obligation.

Risk in sport -- and everything else -- is a big deal across the board, though. Everyday car drivers are vastly under-trained in the USA. Everyday boaters even moreso! What about repetitive or otherwise unduly stressful workplace practices? If we had commonsense standards on so many of our activities we'd HUGELY reduce the social cost, trauma and tragedy. No reason to single out poor little ol' RAAM.

Homeyba

I think your perspective may be skewed by an experience on a poorly run team. People drive unfamilar vehicles on unfamiliar roads all the time. How difficult is it to get in a mini van and drive it. Even if you are unfamiliar with the vehicle at the start of the race, you shouldn't be unfamiliar with it at the end of day one. Navigation on the RAAM route is very basic and not complicated at all (except possible through Flagstaff where it's a bit of a PITA). That is also why you have a driver and a nagavator in each vehicle.
For any crew member to have "very little rest" is a result of poor planning on that particular team, not an inditment of the race. It's not complicated and it's not dangerous if you do it properly.

10 Wheels

This solo rider has just rode 299 miles with 3 @ 20 minute stops.
She rode 272 miles the previous day.

https://www.facebook.com/video/video....12656082084820

Jay P

picked up on this thread after some searches....
just thought i would announce i am going for a self-supported time trial of the raam route. leaving june 13th. this is leg 2 of my No Idle Tour. check it out. www.noidletour.org and www.jaypsdirt.com "friend" and "like" them for updates on facebook. i will also be carrying a gps spot locator that will be up and running on www.trackleaders.com where you can see my progress 24/7.
stop idling and start riding!
-JayP

mmeiser

Howdy Jay! Of course I have been following your no idle tour, loving every second and hanging on every word of your and tracey's iditarod.

I didn't reallize you were doing RAAM self-supported style!? I'd assumed you were doing it all official since you took first at that RAAM qualifier. I assume then this is not RAAM officially "blessed"? This is exactly the sort of thing I was dreaming of. I love it when things stay grass roots, close to the ground, accessible. Before one needs a 10k bike and a 10k budget and a team of people and the organizers need waivers, and insurance. Occasionally you just need to cut through the tape and start a new. To revitalize and make it accessible to a new generation. What I love best about unsupported racing is it's a brotherhood and it doesn't need anyone's permission. Just the mutual love of organizers and riders. I could say "just show up and ride" but we all know it's anything but that for riders and organizers.

Would love to here how you're handling logistics. Camping? Hotels? Bivying? Restaraunt to restaraunt? Would love to see your rig. But I can and will be waiting and following every word and picture on your facebook and website.

mmeiser

Reading your blog post. I'm so excited! BTW, I saw you mention a smart phone. They're good and bad. I took an android incredible with the biggest battery upgrade I could find on a month long trip down the eastern divide this last january. I still had to stop once a day for at least an hour to charge it. I could get at least 48 hours of very heavy use without charging, but this was the middle of january on the divide so I think it'd be safe to say it could go three days in summer. Especially if you switch it to airplane mode when not uploading. I then used a service called posterus.com and it's android app to send pics/videos/text posts to all my services indluding flickr, youtube, my blogger.com blog, facebook and twitter. Worked fairly well. In summary. Such a device could keep you very connected. The RAAM route probably has pretty good coverage. BUT it has to be the first thing out of your bag every time you make a stop. Plug it in... then use the restroom, get food, etc, etc. It's the only way to keep the damn things charged without taking prolonged rest stops. That is unless you deal with some sort of $250 multi-wat solar rig (I wouldn't trust the trickle chargers) or a dynamo hub. All these things are fundamentally going to distract you and slow you down though. The latest gen of smart phones have no better battery life. FYI, they do like mine shoot 8mpx photos, 720 HD video, and have decent data support. I did btw, upload multiple short videos on my January trip down the appalachians and that with consistently spotty coverage. You should have much better coverage. Anyway, I'd love to be able to follow you via facebook via text posts, vidoes, and photos as you ride and would be happy to provide any technical assistance. It's not perfect tech but it as a mass communications tool it is there and is as slackware as one could hope for.

BTW, I continue to use posterus, it makes a sort of tumble blog while updating to other services. Here's my posterus tumble blog: https://mmeiser.posterous.com/