IBOHUNT

I want to say that those numbers are from a Stages but the Weaverton ride may have been the PowerTap. I calibrate either of them before each ride.
Racing license says 55 and memory isn't what it used to be

Here is one I know from the Powertap hub since it dates before I purchased the Stages bit. Couple days after being back on the bike.

It's my Weaverton training route

Hermes

IBO, I think your numbers look great. It is more about what are your competitive goals, if any. In the FTP model construct, FTP is the maximum power one can hold for one hour and that would correspond to an intensity factory of 1.0 and a TSS of 100. One way to get at FTP is to ride for a shorter period of time and use a discount factor such as .9 or .95. However, that can overstate or understate your FTP. But in my opinion, it is all about goals not constructs or generic tests.

So if one rides for 6:25 at an intensity factor of .98 that would mean that only a couple % of the ride was not at FTP. The logic might be that the FTP should be higher. However, that logic could also be dead wrong. It is just a construct not a real measurement of what is exactly happening inside of YOU.

If you are accomplishing your performance goals then declare victory and do not worry about FTP, TSS or anything except getting enough rest. And you are probably getting enough exercise for your health.

Hermes

IBO, are you a triathlete or a pure bike racer of combination thereof?

shovelhd

The question always becomes whether you are training at the proper levels since most people use FTP to set their zones. The risk of having your FTP set too low is that you may not be training efficiently enough to maximize gains. You could be spending a lot of time on the bike and not gaining as much as you could be. If riding is just for fitness then it's just a bunch of numbers, and numbers are not what riding is all about. However if you are racing, training intensity, time, and rest are in a delicate balance, and accuracy throughout helps maximize performance.

IBOHUNT

Thanks, some work to be done I think though.

There's many sets of steps with my name on them... I hope. Stood on them last year but missed the top one.

That's why I was taking the 20 min numbers, from both GC and Garmin and multiplying by .95 however it looked to me from the amount of time at what was supposed to be the FTP number and the 'how I felt when done with the ride' factor that the setting I had wasn't representative of what I could do.

I also know that the Stages and Powertap can differ however I've been, I think, exclusively on the Stages so that I have consistent data.

And I don't think I've had enough time back on the bike. Only 700 miles or so Since May 8th.

Saturday we'll see if I accomplish some goals.

I have done duathlons only because they are close to the house and my daughter's father in law is a pure runner that does them. I wouldn't spend more than 30 minutes to drive to one. I won't do tri's because I probably couldn't swim for more than 100 meters. Never have tried, not that far across the creek.

I wouldn't consider myself a bike 'racer' either but that's my goal. I know I can't crit well; all I do is get shelled off the back in accelerations then the referee gives me the cut sign. The guys on the team I ride with tell me to focus on TT's (because I suck at road/crits is my translation) so that's this years plan. The Philly TT is Saturday and I'm using it as a 'where am I' B race.



Understood about the balance and that's what I am struggling with right now. The desire to come back to where I was pre-op and do it quickly as TT season is here.
I'm not overly concerned with the specific number that's from the power meter but a consistent number that I know I can go ride to and reap benefits. The 10 min hill repeats I did on had these averages

290, 303, 294, 281, 275, 285, 281, and 289

Now I know there were rest periods in between the efforts to talk to some folks that were at the top and at the bottom to fill my bottles so that can skew some of the numbers.
Did it hurt after those repeats? Sure it did but I was not near the tag I placed on my stem... Hurt Now Puke Later.
Did I want to do any more repeats? Not a chance.

Everything I look at tells me that ~275 is the number to use.
I'll find out Saturday. GC says the last 7 days 20 min peak power was 285 so my plan is 280 for the 4 miles out and as much as it can hurt for the 4 miles back. If I blow up then I blow up.

sarals 

I did two TT's, a 5K and 10K, practice, today. Both were expected to be above FTP. The 5K averaged 1 watt below FTP, the 10K, not so good. That one was an out and back, and the wind was ridiculous on the return leg. I was feeling the previous 10K I'd already ridden, AND the crit on Saturday, AND the ITT on Wednesday. Still, I am feeling almost as good as I did at my peak last August. I think I'll actually be a little stronger this year when I hit my peak. That's pretty cool!

revchuck 

^^^This is the bottom line!

The "book version" of estimating your FTP is to warm up and then do a 20 minute TT, puke, and ride home. Your average power (x .95) will be higher than the best 20 minutes of a two hour + ride.

Regardless, you're still stronger than I am...whippersnapper!

I need to get one of those "Hurt Now, Puke later" stickers.

AzTallRider

From what you've related, IBO, I'd bet 275 is on the low side. Doing a defined 20' test would be a good indication; one key thing is consistency in the test. Same location, etc.

Hermes

From IBO <snip>The 10 min hill repeats I did on had these averages

290, 303, 294, 281, 275, 285, 281, and 289

Now I know there were rest periods in between the efforts to talk to some folks that were at the top and at the bottom to fill my bottles so that can skew some of the numbers. <snip>



IBO, if you are focusing on ITTs, then I suggest getting on the bike and after a warmup, try 300 or 310 or more and try to hold that power for the duration of the target race distance. If you only make 80% of the distance or whatever and the power falls off then you know you can do the power and you have to work on duration. If you make the distance, then you can try a higher target power.

If you have no specificity for the race distance or type of race but want to improve your 1 hour power and structure training around that metric then go for the 20 minute FTP test.

IBOHUNT

Can I do a warm up, Philly TT & puke, get my medal then go home?

Printable version but feel free to make your own. No copyright infringement




I'd like it to be on the low side. I'll make a plan to complete a *real* 20 min FTP via Trainer Road test next week. I hate indoors but I don't have anything around here that some would consider flat to do a test on and Trainer Road allows it to be consistent. I have a 5 mile avg 3% climb that takes me 21 min to do but even in that there is some downhill bits

Thanks for looking at what I've written and the advice/words.

IBOHUNT

Awesome bit of advice! Thanks a tonne!
A month from now is my first A race and it's a dag gum 40K. DOH!

Hermes

Well, IBO, since the goal ITT is 40K then you need one hour power. And doing one hour at FTP is taxing and can take a longer recovery period even though, it is only scored as 100 TSS. I think most racers training for 40K ITT do 20 minute intervals at or around FTP and they throw in some harder 3 to 5 minute VO2max. Also, riding the indoor rollers or trainer for an FTP test is more difficult than the road. So you need a factor for that as well. Good luck.

shovelhd

Hermes advice is rock solid. The five mile climb could work as a test course. I know it's hard to keep the power on down grades but that's what you have to do during races. It's good practice. If your head unit can display lap AP and NP you want to keep those numbers as close as possible.

sarals 

On the schedule yesterday was 2:30 at 'solid pace" with "several" sprints on hills. I had a good strong ride going until the the third sprint. That did it. I meekly soft pedaled home after that with only two hours on the saddle. I think the load of the last week, plus the night shift the night before, and only having a poached egg (and toast) before the ride affected me. TSS was 200 (!)

Whatever. I've been riding better and better (not that I'm a threat to anyone), which is definitely the trend. I can't complain.

IBOHUNT

Looks like that 5:44 effort up Hennekens took quite a bit.
2 hrs in the saddle with a TSS of 200 = IF of 1 right?

revchuck 

Yup. Sara doesn't need other racers to kick her ass, she's perfectly capable of doing it herself.

Tuesday was a rest day, Wednesday I was rained out. I did Wednesday's workout this morning, 1:30 at endurance pace with what was supposed to be a 30 minute low Z4 interval that ended up being somewhat over threshold. It felt relatively easy, easier than the ones I did last week that stayed in the desired range. I'm guessing that part of it is due to two consecutive days off the bike, and part is due to returning fitness. TSS 112, IF .87.

Hermes

We go snake bit by SWA as they canceled our flight from SFO to OC. However, we opted for a flight leaving close to our departure time but going to LAX. We changed our Hertz reservation and picked up our car.



I love LA. One can easily upgrade cars. However, transporting our luggage and bike stuff just would not fit.

We got to LA on schedule and went to West LA for a frozen yogurt at the Big Chill. We then drove to the track and had a 3 hour track session with Roger Young.

IBOHUNT

I am hoping my time off the bike this week pays off like it seems yours did.

revchuck 

Well, my happiness may have been premature. Today's ride was less successful. I had a similar assignment - 30 minutes low Z4 - but instead of starting at 0615 with temps in the high 60s and no sun, I started at 0945 with clear skies, lots of sun, and temps in the 80s. I started the interval 28 minutes into the ride and in about 17 minutes my legs said "Chuck you, Farley." I rested five minutes and tried again, only getting another six minutes at the targeted power. I resigned myself to doing the rest of the ride at endurance pace, but about an hour later was able to do another nine minutes (thought it was ten, but miscounted) and could've done a bit more.

My guess is that it was a combination of having pushed myself too hard yesterday, several days of lousy sleep, my first longish solo ride in the heat, and probable inadequate hydration before I left. I went through three bottles of water and a 23 oz. can of sweet tea on this ride, so four bottles' worth of fluids...and I was thirsty when I got home. 2:43, TSS 149, IF .74, 1449 kj.

IBOHUNT

Well, not quite the book version but the TT took me 19:11 and like an idiot I forgot to start the Garmin until about 1/2 mile in. For the 18 min that the Garmin was running it said

AP = NP = 306; lose the coffee and half a bagel
IF 1.127
TSS 41
328kJ

Last half the race Avg Pwr 318; Avg HR = Don't tell my doc.

Appears that they work.

Mission accomplished

revchuck 

Looks like FTP = 291 watts.

IBOHUNT

I found in GC that it will estimate CP if you give it a short effort and long effort. I took my 5 min best of 323 and the 18 min 306 from today and it spat out 299W so yeah, I need to make a slight change from the 273 I had set. Happier than Gov. Christie at a paid for all you can eat buffet.

AzTallRider

I think thats more like it IBO, and it's a heck of a nice number. Using it will get your workout targets up where they should be.

revchuck 

Another ride reminding me of how much I need to do. It was supposed to be a mellow team ride, 17-19 mph average. Yeah, right...30 miles out into a headwind with a 20 mph average, then the trip back at 22-24 mph, rising to 28 mph when I pulled off. Power wasn't that high, but my HR was certainly up there. When I finally got in, I was feeling a milder form of the symptoms I had last fall when I ended up in the ER with dehydration. Within the next 45 minutes I consumed about a half gallon of various fluids...didn't feel bloated, my body just absorbed it. This was completely avoidable, I had just decided I didn't have time to drink on the drive to the ride - I keep a case of water in the bed of the truck, just didn't want to stop to get some. For an older, experienced guy, I can be a real dumbass sometimes. TSS 165, IF .73.

IBOHUNT

A case of water in the truck. A bit hot down there for that ain't it? Suprised it just doesn't boil off.
I was hunting gators down there a few years back. Just about needed a 5 gal bucket IV hooked into me all the time. Don't know how ya'll do it.