Heathpack 

@Hermes, I was riding in a bike lane that goes through an industrial park. There are several contractors who have offices in that area, including the guy who redid our kitchen.

Chicken soup intervals for me today. I'm sick. Sore throat and headache when I woke up & just kind of sore all over, wiped out. Called out at work. I have my doctors appt Fri to get cleared for my cataract surgery. Must. Not. Be. Sick. Then.

sarals 

@sarals has been busy with work. What a surprise.

I decided I could plug my Asus gaming laptop into my Sony big screen and maybe Zwift would look and work better than it did on my seriously old Macbook Pro a year ago. Which was the last time I rode Zwift. Because it was less than satisfying on that old laptop, what with the dropped video frames and 17 inch screen. I hooked it all up night before last, got Zwift to recognize the Quark power on the Venge, and wow. Huge, smooth video!

I rode a JRA yesterday, Watopia (Zootopia?), and made a wrong turn and went up some ridiculous climb. Now, I don't have a smart trainer, but the sheer look of that road going up and up had an enormous psychological effect and I truly suffered on that climb! My stupid watts/KG was pathetic - PATHETIC - at 1.6W/Kg, but I did manage to pass a couple of people. What was fun was seeing who was coming and what kind of power they were making. Very entertaining!

Today I rode a CD2 cadence drill, using Zwift Watopia again (60 Minute Garmin go-where-you-want-to). Man. I just could not hold those five minute 118 RPM intervals, I'd droop slowly to 100 RPM as my hamstrings got tight and the lactic overwhelmed me. That trainer is just HARD. So is high cadence. It's going to take me some time to adapt to spinning like that.

Oh, and last night I tripped and fell in my driveway and jammed my left wrist. There is not a mark on it, but it sure does hurt.

One thing after the other.

Happy New Year, everyone.

Hermes

@Heathpack Out out. Sickness. Go. Away. Hope that helps.

Heathpack 

Thanks @Hermes.

@sarals, Zwift does sound fun. I still can't imagine why I need it. But it does sound fun.

@revchuck, what is your approach to weight loss? Just the classic "eat less calories"? Less junk? Or do you focus on certain macronutrients?

I was asking because I have been trying to read a little more about fat burning & fasted training. Because I keep saying that's what I'm doing without being able to really articulate what I mean by that in physiologic detail.

In my attempts to read, I came across this very intelligent & well-written blog. How a low carb diet affected my athletic performance (Part 4) - The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D. The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D.

The author is a physician, proponent of a ketogenic diet but he actually is able to discuss the scientific underpinnings of what he espouses rather than treating the topic like a religous argument. I know that I couldn't go full on keto, it would just be too hard to do logistically. But I think there might be some argument to me cutting carbs from my current 200-300 grams per day to say perhaps 100-150 grams. Not sure about this mixed approach but I am increasingly convinced that fasted morning workouts are a smart move for me- it's the easiest way for me to do super-early workouts anyway, no time to eat before.

Racer Ex 

Riding up the Mortirolo at the moment. Weird... snowing a few feet away from where I am, yet the Mortirolo is sunny and 68 with a nice breeze.

The low carb diets aren't good for endurance athletes, based on what studies I've seen and my experience coaching folks who were on them. That's defining EA as someone who rides above zone 3.

I am much stronger on fasted rides and timing carb intake. YMMV.

revchuck 

I've been following the advice in Matt Fitzgerald's book Racing Weight...except over the holidays when I obviously fell off the wagon. Part of my weight gain is due to the normal daily variance, too. I was five pounds lighter less than a week ago according to the same scale.

The program is centered around improving diet quality and adjusting how much you eat to match your needs. It's the second half that bit me in the butt.

Heathpack 

The blog post I linked was very interesting. He winds up riding two VO2max tests 12 weeks apart. First one non-ketotic and the second one ketotic. Obviously time & presumably training elapsed & you can't chalk the differences between the two tests 100% to being ketotic vs not. However the cool thing to me was that he calculated respiratory quotient and saw this huge difference in reliance on carbs (very high initially- 100%) vs reliance on fat (much lower-70% when keto) at anaerobic threshold. I think you achieve something along those lines with fasted/minimally-fueled workouts. Or at least I know that the math for me doesn't always seem to point to me using up glycogen as fast as I should. By that I mean, I'm able to perform at a higher level than it seems like I should be able to for a longer period of time than I should be able to.

I'm still not 100% sure what I'm actually doing on a physiologic level though. As in "I couldn't make a power poin presentation in which I explain the physiology with certainty".

Racer Ex 

Agree on the .ppt presentation (me great unwashed), but my unified theory on fasted rides is that your body adapts to better scavenge fat. Which, if you're not eating carbs, could produce the same sort of result.

There's a cause/effect crossover here as well; I can plot out a bonk duration over fitness graph that show a lot of symbiosis.

The V02 max loss he saw is not good in any shape or form. It's in keeping with what I've seen with clients, I took to calling it CDS (crit death syndrome). Three surges and OTB. Wasn't good for TT's either. VO2 underpinnings.

Different take on the same subject where they found a bunch of negatives. I'm sure there's a lot of individual response in this and likely an even bigger genetic component that smart folks will start exploring at some point.

I've had some interesting conversations with the "carbs are bad" folks. A lot of this is based on the caveman theory. Agriculture is new, ancient grain eaters were smaller than their hunter contemps, Etc. Open raincoat and expose dogma.

My answer has been I figure that we've had around 4000 or so generations since we started eating grains, average heights have grown considerably in that time, and so has longevity in most cases. Is it possible that we've evolved in 4000 generations to utilize what we've been eating as a tribe or species? If your last 2500 generation of ancestors ate one type of food, maybe there's a genetic adaptation to favor that food type?

Then I ask what flu shot they got this year.

At this point their eyes roll back in their head and they wander off

Heathpack 

I don't know what type of racing the blog author used to do. He has no race results in USAC so I suspect he was a triathlete. I would think if he was racing Ironman distances he might actually be ok with the VO2max loss, if the trade off is he can perform better longer on just stored fuels.

Reading through his blog, his argument is not along the paleo lines. He himself lost quite a bit of weight while still eating carbs but he went from something like 10% body fat to 7.5% body fat when he went full keto. Does he argue that it's worth the effort for most people? Nope, probably not. To some extent, he seems like he was trying to understand what his own body would do, physiologically, with a ketogenic diet.

His major premise is that the big change which correlates with the obesity epidemic is the availability of inexpensive carbs (specifically sugar), which has made essentially unlimited carb calories available to your average joe (whereas historically calories were more expensive). Combined with the public health advice to eat carbs prefentially over other macronutrient classes.

Additionally, his belief is that there is a spectrum to people's insulin responses to carbs- ie genetic differences in how we lay down fat and what the stimulus is for that. A minority of people seem to be able to eat carbs with no tendency to store fat. Another minority seem to have exaggerated insulin responses to carbs- they store fat if exposed to carbs in any amount. And in his opinion, most people are in the middle- they store fat proportionally to the carb calories they're exposed to. Give those people limitless carb calories and they become obese. His core message is really to limit carb calories. But this is really what any of use do when we limit calories at all- since the SAD is 50ish% carbs anyway.

The interesting implication is that obesity/losing weight is not really a willpower, discipline or appetite thing. It's really more of an issue of how people of differing physiologies store fat.

One thing I disagree with is his acceptance that science "proves" exercise is ineffective for weight loss/mgmt. Because when you read those articles they're actually seriously flawed- calories were simultaneously being restricted, or protein was restricted or not quantified at all or not "dosed" based on body weight, or totally untrained subjects who were incapable of intense exercise were studied for a limited period of time like 12 weeks, or so on. I'm pretty convinced that exercise in the context of calorie restriction and adequate protein intake is basically the formula. The real issue being that it takes a greater volume and/or intensity of exercise than most people in modern life want to accept as reality. 'Cause this is modern society and that's supposed to mean life is easy and we should not exert ourselves physically any more.

BTW, I couldn't read your article, I just linked to the abstract rather than the full text. I can probably get it though & give it a read. I think race walking is epically weird though.

Racer Ex 

Really great Ted Talk from Peter Attia on that.

Still believe that the fundamental math equation (calories in v. out) is a core fundamental in weight manipulation, but the devil is in the details on the specific big picture outcome. Don't get me started on why edible heroin is cheap and better alternatives are expensive. And the genetic part of that is way under valued and under researched. Eugenics is long going to be a hot button that folks are going to shy away from. Maybe one day we can look at that objectively...then use it against those people. They know who they are.



While the author wasn't using the paleo reasoning it's the popular driving force on that type of diet. The underpinning false assumptions kind of make me chuckle, hence the commentary.

Having people out there experimenting and documenting the work is always a good thing. Most of what I at least try to do on the coaching end of things is to find the pieces that fit those individual puzzles. The blog is a good read and adds to the knowledge base we all share.

Heathpack 

The genetics stuff is 100% real, ask any veterinarian. Hogs used to be prized for their ability to lay down both fat and meat- the lard they produced was as valuable as the meat. So hogs were bred for fat-storing ability. But then fat became the devil and very quickly, within a decade or two (keeping in mind that a hog generation is 1/10 as long as a human generation), hogs were bred to be very lean animals. Either way, you're going to feed them just enough protein to grow, just enough fat and minerals/vitamins to get by, and the rest of their calories will come from carbs.


When you say genetics are important though, people start to see this as an excuse, they believe they can't lose weight. Nope, it just might mean that mammals respond to carbs by laying on fat. You're the lucky one. When the zombie apocalypse comes, you'll be able to live on a handful of rice a week. Whereas the supermodels will be dropping like flies. Until then, you just have to understand your own physiology and what works for you to maintain a reasonable weight now. You have to do what it takes. Genes are no excuse.


And I really agree on the cheap sugar calories and how public policy shapes that and makes people really sick. But here in SoCal healthy food is routinely wicked cheap- cheaper than the packaged stuff. Just this week big beautiful navel oranges the size of softballs, 4 for $1. Bananas $0.25/pound. Broccoli $0.79/bunch. Red peppers 5 for $1. Grass fed lamb shoulder steaks $3.50/pound. Blackberries $0.85/6 oz package.


Maybe that's part of why people in California are a little skinnier than the national average. But here and everywhere in America food marketing pushes people to make wrong choices, restaurants push unrealistically caloric food as the norm, lots of people don't shop or cook, and there's a general attitude in the American culture that I can have whatever I want with no repercussions.


Its totally multifactorial.

revchuck 

1:30 at endurance pace with 2x(6x30") sprint intervals. The rain is pretty much gone for the week, but the humidity is still here - my glasses would fog as I moved in and out of shadows due to the 10+ degree temperature difference and 95% humidity.

Started a different routine in the gym yesterday, and my glutes were tight this morning when I awoke. All around my hips are tight now. I guess I'm doing some work.

sarals 

Seeing as I have to work today, and even though my training schedule says "TRACK" for today, I can't go. So, I set up the bike on the trainer when I got home last night and prepped it and myself for another Zwift adventure for this morning.

It was kinda frustrating!

First, the PM battery in the Venge died, like right away. It has been in that PM for six months, so it was time. I rooted around in my customary battery repository and of course I didn't have another CR 2032. And i wasn't going to rob one out of my watch or cadence sensor on another bike (it was 0600, and my patience for such "stuff" was kinda thin). So, I went out to my car (OMFG it's cold outside!) with the intent of looking in my bike tool box for another battery. I was reasonably certain I had one in the toolbox. When I got to the car I noticed my TT bike (oh, yeah, I left that in the car), so I pulled it out and brought it in the house. A few minutes later I had it swapped with the Venge on the trainer, Zwift had found the Powertap hub (the batteries in it were NOT dead), and I was starting another 60 minute go where you want ride.

That trainer just does me in. I stopped several times and fiddled with the magnetic brake on the thing, and I just could not find a sweet spot. It only has three positions, as I've said, and none of them are even close to optimum. The best I could do was the highest setting, which sort of gives the right resistance, but OMG does it wear me out if I try to hold anything near the top of the pace range.

So, rather than an hour of chasing around on Zwift this morning, I only did 30 minutes.

And i came away from the ride in a mind state that I don't care for - frustrated!

Bandera

Interesting podcast on Neuromuscular training from Velonews Fast Talk:

Fast Talk, ep. 8: Stop your legs from fighting (themselves) | VeloNews.com

The ability to pedal a high cadence as "normal", and effectively change that cadence at will for a strong broad power band on demand, was a fundamental concept my coach emphasized way back when. Here it is again with a good explanation of how/why and relevant drills to train those neurons to Obey.

Hey, where's the fixed gear bike?

-Bandera

IBOHUNT

Thanks for the link thing

IBOHUNT

30 minutes ru**i*g on a treadmill at noon then 1 round in the gym

sarals 

+1!

Hermes

Did a track workout yesterday at VSC with new coach. 40 lap low speed warmup behind the motor with acceleration the last couple of laps. Then 1x100m seated climb up the banking followed by 100 meter flying jump. That completed the warmup.

The workout was 3 sets of a 100 meter jump seated from the relief line 5 minutes rest and then a standing 200 meter jump from the relief line 90 gear inches. Rest 15 minutes and do it again.

I worked out with another sprinter who led out the jumps. My job was to chase.

Max power was 985 watt and max cadence 134. 10 sec power 822 watts.

I did the workout in my aerobars but did the sprints in the bull horns. The goal is to develop strength and power in that setup since most of my races but for team sprint will use the aerobars.

My workout partner gapped me every time on the jump. This was expected but he has the skill to make a hard left from the relief line and dive to the pole lane. I felt like if I did that I would end up on the basketball court in the infield. So my dive was less severe and I lost speed plus the strength gap between us.

I held the initial gap distance over the distance interval and according to coach actually closed it a little according to his split times. My best power effort was the last one.

I did a 20 lap warm down. TSS for the TSS hounds was 117. Pretty funny.

This AM I feel good and no DOMS.

IBOHUNT

Just for you. About 16 minutes or so in....

p.s. During my tstlp last Sunday self selected cadence average = 94

sarals 

@Hermes, this is something I'd not be doing. I cannot hang on for more than a lap at 26 to 28 MPH, 31 MPH is ludicrous.

Oh, to be younger...

Heathpack 

Yesterday I felt better and did an hour of JRA on the TT bike. I really wanted to get in a road ride with the new TT helmet. It looks really good as far as how it interfaces with my body but yesterday was the first ride with it. I'm not sure about fit- it has a visor and when I'm in aero that rests on my cheekbones, I wasn't expecting it to touch my face. Feels fine though, not irritating or annoying, I'm seeing my fitter on Sat and he will help me sort out the helmet.

Then yesterday afternoon I started to just feel really tired and a little more sick. I've been hugely busy at work and a very stressful case not going well (lovely dog, lovely owner, so of course you know he died last night).

Now this morning feeling bad enough to resort to self-medication. Don't ask, I can't help it if my dog just happened to start feeling sick yesterday too to the extent she needed some antibiotics. I have my doctors appt tomorrow to get me cleared for this cataract surgery. Just kind of a scheduling nightmare for me if I have to postpone the surgery.

And of course I have a race on Sunday. Sigh. I'm staying off the bike today, tomorrow is a scheduled rest day, Sat visit with fitter and openers.

I just like to do the work on the bike. So off the bike + work stress + feeling not great = no fun.

IBOHUNT

@Heathpack - It will get better. Good luck with the surgery and the race.

IBOHUNT

34 minutes (4 miles) on the treadmill at noon then some tempo stuff on the trainer after work

sarals 

It's not raining today, and a JRA (base) is on the docket. Headed out shortly...

Good luck this weekend, @Heathpack!

revchuck 

He's right. It'd get better quicker if he'd send you some of that clear stuff of his.