Notices
Masters Racing (All Disciplines) Race on the track or road or on your mountainbike in the Masters Category? Want to talk tactics, strategy and training with your peers?

Which Cat 4?

Old 11-17-13, 06:47 PM
  #1  
OMC
Thread Starter
 
revchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960

Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 49 Posts
Which Cat 4?

Folks - I've been thinking about next year, and what happens when I can FINALLY get out of Cat 5, which should occur in April. My racing age next year will be 63. I read through all the races in my area from this year, and my choices generally boil down to Senior 4, Master's 40+ 1-4, and Senior 4/5. Some races have Master's 55+ or 60+ Open, or Master's 35+ 4/5. The road races and crits are almost always the same distance among them.

Based on your experience, any recommendations as to the pros and cons of each? My first instinct was to go with the highest age classification, but then I checked the results for the Pensacola Cycling Classic, and saw that the 60+ guys were faster than the Senior Cat 4s!
__________________
Regards,
Chuck

Demain, on roule!
revchuck is offline  
Old 11-18-13, 10:50 AM
  #2  
LAJ
So it is
 
LAJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Westminster, CO
Posts: 21,090

Bikes: Luzerne, 684, Boreas, Wheelhouse, Alize©®, Bayamo, Cayo

Mentioned: 245 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11222 Post(s)
Liked 4,567 Times in 2,653 Posts
It's my experience, which is nil compared to most here, that the older Cat 4's 45+4 in my case, can't ride a bike to save their ass. I had less weirdness in the straight 4's than I did in the 35+4 and 45+4 classes. I would have thought it was the complete opposite, but I was wrong.

My thought on that: I think folks wanting to race bikes at a later time in life were likely fairly athletic in earlier times. Running killed their body, or they want to try something new, so they figure cycling would be the next logical step. Anyone can ride a bike, so let's go race one. I know there are many more reasons for folks wanting to race, but I see that scenario quite a bit.
LAJ is offline  
Old 11-18-13, 02:44 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Allegheny Jet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Medina, OH
Posts: 5,806

Bikes: confidential infromation that I don't even share with my wife

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
revchuck, I didn't have much choice when I started racing at age 55. It was Cat 5, then Cat 4 or Masters 1 - 4. From my seat it was easier to race with the Masters, but not be in contention at the end as I would in the pack riding 4's. In the Masters there would be strong breaks that were protected by team tactics pretty much leaving me to sit in and sprint for scraps.

Last edited by Allegheny Jet; 11-18-13 at 02:47 PM.
Allegheny Jet is offline  
Old 11-18-13, 03:30 PM
  #4  
Version 7.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,060

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Liked 2,332 Times in 1,359 Posts
IMO, it gets down to goals - upgrade to cat 3 or register, ride and / or hang out with your peers. One can always register and line up with the 55+ open guys. And you can chat with them afterward to see how the race was. Whether you can race with them competitively is another matter. However, you can tell tales from Offthebackistan. Every master who starts racing later in life faces the same issue.
Hermes is offline  
Old 11-18-13, 03:39 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,105 Times in 1,417 Posts
55+ Open will almost certainly be harder. Much harder, but safer. On crit days I would try to do both if time and fitness allows. Usually the Cat 4 race will be the 2d race of the day. That one is the race you could do to try for some primes and a good placement. The Masters races later in the day you could treat like a motorpacing session.
caloso is offline  
Old 11-18-13, 06:11 PM
  #6  
OMC
Thread Starter
 
revchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960

Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 49 Posts
Thanks, all! The consensus confirms what I expected - Senior 4 would be easier than Master's 55+/60+ Open, or Master's 40+ 1-4. I know how badly I was spanked at the one Master's race I did. Even so, I'd like to race with guys my own age. I've got lots of time to decide, but I'm leaning toward a version of caloso's suggestion - sign up for a stage race as a 4, and race the Master's crit too, assuming it's within the rules. As for working toward Cat 3...that's not a goal at this time.

If I can get some results as a 4, that'd be great. If I'm destined for pack fodder either way, I'll just ride with the other codgers.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck

Demain, on roule!
revchuck is offline  
Old 11-19-13, 12:08 AM
  #7  
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Posts: 13,089
Mentioned: 158 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 5 Posts
Do both if it's a crit.

If it's a road race do the Cat 4. You'll probably have more company. Once you can hang a bit in the master's crits move to the master's road races.

When I was a 4 I'd do the 35+ 4/5, the 4's, and the 45+ on most crit days. Or at least 2 if I couldn't do 3.

How far are you from Houston BTW?
Racer Ex is offline  
Old 11-19-13, 05:13 AM
  #8  
OMC
Thread Starter
 
revchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960

Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by Racer Ex
Do both if it's a crit.

If it's a road race do the Cat 4. You'll probably have more company. Once you can hang a bit in the master's crits move to the master's road races.

When I was a 4 I'd do the 35+ 4/5, the 4's, and the 45+ on most crit days. Or at least 2 if I couldn't do 3.

How far are you from Houston BTW?
Ex - It's about 150 miles to Houston, so it's within range. One of the last point races in LAMBRA is the Chappell Hill Road Race in September. Thanks for the highlighted suggestion!
__________________
Regards,
Chuck

Demain, on roule!
revchuck is offline  
Old 11-19-13, 09:18 AM
  #9  
Version 7.0
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,060

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Liked 2,332 Times in 1,359 Posts
How far are you from Baton Rouge?
Hermes is offline  
Old 11-19-13, 10:48 AM
  #10  
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Posts: 13,089
Mentioned: 158 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 5 Posts
Hermes and I are both going towards a track bike and doing some track racing. If you're doing mass start stuff it's a super condensed tactics class and I've found it's a fair bit smoother than crits in the lower cats because people can't jam on the brakes and tend to be circumspect on where they stick their nose.

Most race days run on an omnium format with 3 different events per class, if you do both the straight cat and the masters (either age or an age/cat if it's offered) you get 6 "races" to work on tactics plus the events often require thinking and strategy beyond just crossing the line first (points race, miss n out, snowball, Etc).

Additionally, all the other races unfold right in front of you so you can watch and learn from other racers.

I don't think it's an accident that a lot of the best current and former racers had a track background, from Zabel to Cav.
Racer Ex is offline  
Old 11-19-13, 12:21 PM
  #11  
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: 60 Miles South of Hellyer
Posts: 6,744

Bikes: Yes.

Mentioned: 228 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Racer Ex
Hermes and I are both going towards a track bike and doing some track racing. If you're doing mass start stuff it's a super condensed tactics class and I've found it's a fair bit smoother than crits in the lower cats because people can't jam on the brakes and tend to be circumspect on where they stick their nose.

Most race days run on an omnium format with 3 different events per class, if you do both the straight cat and the masters (either age or an age/cat if it's offered) you get 6 "races" to work on tactics plus the events often require thinking and strategy beyond just crossing the line first (points race, miss n out, snowball, Etc).

Additionally, all the other races unfold right in front of you so you can watch and learn from other racers.

I don't think it's an accident that a lot of the best current and former racers had a track background, from Zabel to Cav.
So that's why you're encouraging me to race track!
__________________
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
sarals is offline  
Old 11-19-13, 12:22 PM
  #12  
OMC
Thread Starter
 
revchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960

Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by Hermes
How far are you from Baton Rouge?
About 135 miles. That's the closest track, but I don't see a track bike (or another bike in general) in my immediate future. Besides, I know even less about track racing than other forms of bike racing...and that takes some doin'!

I'm pretty sure they do have rental bikes there, though. I'll check it out.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck

Demain, on roule!
revchuck is offline  
Old 11-23-13, 07:09 AM
  #13  
Semper Fi
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,941
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1172 Post(s)
Liked 356 Times in 240 Posts
Rev,
Next time you are in Pensacola, including for the Classic, shoot me a P.M. You always have a place to base out of at our home, if you'd like. We may not be a Marriot or Sheraton, or even a Holiday Inn Express, but we do keep the farm animals outside now and have indoor plumbing. It would be our pleasure to have you and yours stay with us.

Bill
__________________
Semper Fi, USMC, 1975-1977

I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13


qcpmsame is offline  
Old 11-23-13, 07:23 AM
  #14  
OMC
Thread Starter
 
revchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960

Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 49 Posts
Bill - That's a wonderfully generous offer! I might have to take you up on it in September. Just hope I can remember.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck

Demain, on roule!
revchuck is offline  
Old 11-23-13, 07:25 AM
  #15  
Semper Fi
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,941
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1172 Post(s)
Liked 356 Times in 240 Posts
It will be a standing offer, always available for you and yours.

Bill
__________________
Semper Fi, USMC, 1975-1977

I Can Do All Things Through Him, Who Gives Me Strength. Philippians 4:13


qcpmsame is offline  
Old 11-24-13, 09:09 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm with Ex on all fronts. Race both Cat4 and Masters when you can. Race Cat4 for the win and use Masters for training. The Cat4s are still loaded with guys who race like Cat5s so they will chase pretty much everything, however the Masters will not. Use the Masters to try stuff like bridging to a break or soloing for a prime. Finally, don't lose perspective just because you upgraded to Cat4. You are still a beginning racer even without the 5 on your license. Watch, listen to your body, try stuff, and don't be afraid to lose.
shovelhd is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Bikeracer123
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing
18
03-12-18 04:59 PM
Sodapedaler
Northern California
4
10-03-16 04:24 PM
globecanvas
Masters Racing (All Disciplines)
14
04-04-13 12:37 PM
Butcher
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing
100
01-08-12 08:35 PM
BrainInAJar
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing
2
10-07-10 01:47 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.