EthanYQX

Bike setup? I'm assuming it's something like fourcross, but I really don't know. Thanks guys.

mtnbiker66

Yeah, chainguide, short travel or hardtail. Something like a Specailized SX.

EthanYQX

Running a DJ frame for 4X now, will that suffice?

never

Should be fine...go for it.

dminor 

Perfect.

Now if someone would just take the whole DS format,shoot it and put it out of our misery.

Dannihilator

Fixed

dminor 

OK, Smashy, what do you guys all find so appealing about a hand-me-down format from ski-racing and that requires two complete carefully-groomed courses to be laid out? I don't get it. Where is the racing in it?

I'll grant you, 4X has its limitations; but most of that is because of what NORBA has allowed Frosty/Blue Wolf and company to let it morph into (courses too short, too groomed, hole-shot fests that are just BMX on a slope).

cryptid01

The same place as it is in dh racing, rally racing, enduro racing, the isle of man, and the 100 meter dash, to name a few.

EthanYQX

I agree-4x needs more creek gaps.

It's too damn much like BMX. You don't need to be able to roll over it, dammit, this is mountain biking!

dminor 

OK, I know; I love DH but there is something about one-person-against-the-clock that fundamentally bugs me about that too. But God forbid; don't ever try to broach the subject of change with downhillers. My gosh, the format is sacred almost. I've found the discipline to be more provincial in its collective thought than roadies.

Oh, and at least with the Isle of Man, you get the thrill of dodging sheep at 175 mph

I remember watching boarder-cross in the last Winter Olympics and that was really fun from a specatator standpoint. The race was long enough to where there were actually lead-changes. I think Mountain-Cross (or 4-Cross) needs longer courses, more varied terrain and a 5-up heats, semis and mains.

cryptid01

The concept of racing against the clock is what you're against, then? In DS both gates drop at the same time, so it's really not that hard to figure out if you're ahead or behind. If it's not truly considered head to head racing, you have to admit it's pretty damn close.

Besides, it's much more difficult to build a ginormous, olympic sized mountaincross track that's actually competitive than it is to build two reasonably similar lines by poking some sticks in the ground on a hillside.

Dannihilator

4X is only a transplanted BMX course.

dminor 

The clock still determines a DS race so it's not true head-to-head; it's just side-by-side time trial.

A big mountaincross course wouldn't have to be that involved to build if you did it sort of like old-school motocross: ribbon off a slope the width of a track, doze up a handful of jumps but leave the rest pretty natural with off-cambers, muddy spots, etc. and let it get worn in from the weekend's racing. Other than well-shaped jumps, no perfectly-groomed features.

I agree with you, Smashy, that 4-cross is transplanted BMX; but that's only what it has mutated into - - not what it was supposed to be or could be.

Maybe my perspective is jaded. I get a kick out of MTX racers throwing hissy fits over the slightest bit of contact on the course, like they were in a road race or something. My first racing experience was indoor short track, where you'd get 5 guys on 125s or 250s on a tiny horse arena track all banging handlebars in mad first-turn duels and five laps of swapping leads. Real contact was when four guys locked handlebars exiting a turn and you hit the wall at 35-40 mph.

BFG

We race Mountain Cross over here, similiar to 4X but more exciting for competitors and spectators.

As far as the Isle Of Man os concerned, don't get me started. Huge fan right here. Very jealous that last year (Bearing in mind it was the 100th Anniversary) my dad and 7 other blokes packed their Triumph's into crates, shipped them to England, ferried to the IoM for the week before leaving on Mad Sunday (Not after buying me a t-shirt) to tour Europe for 4 weeks.
Spain, France, Andorra it was all on the map. Bas7ards didnt take any pillions =[

cryptid01

I can't think of many time trial formats where you could conceivably have the second fastest run of the day and still be eliminated in the prelims.

never

To make it fun for everyone, you could run it like bracket racing...dial in your time and get a headstart or delay and see if you can run your dial in. That'd be sweet!

EthanYQX

That WOULD be cool, Never!

BFG

Similar to running your time in Drag racing? Where its not the fastest down the strip, but the closest to their pre-determined estimate?

EthanYQX

Drag is all about the fastest down the strip. What you're referring to is bracket racing.

But yes. Same idea.