First off, good to be back. I was an adamant lurker many moons ago, but took a hiatus from here as I just accepted the Tank ('08 Rincon) was just going to be my only option for a while. And other things took up my time...

ANYWAY, I got a new (to me) Trek Stache 8 1x10 and the thing just throws the chain off constantly (to the inside of the chainring, not towards the pedal). I've ridden it probably 10 miles total and threw the chain probably 6 times. I work with a guy who races and he has some sort of Wolf Tooth chainring which resists dropping chains (Wolf Tooth Drop Stop Narrow/Wide Chainring 104 BCD Black | Wolf Tooth). First off, how does that even work? I mean, I understand that thickness alternates with each tooth, but how does that help keep a chain on, and how effective is it?

Second, what are everyone's opinions on chainguides? A certain style/brand/model preferred? I've never thought about it before, but apparently all the bumpiness causes the chain to just sling itself off from the top, completing its removal from the chainring as you pedal, is that correct? I notice there are guides for the bottom, but they seem to be in addition to protection on the top. I assume a chain which is too long could also cause this. What is the rule of thumb for determining if your chain is the right length?

It's a hard tail, ridden fairly hard (but not carelessly), on very rocky singletrack. SRAM X.9 RD, RaceFace 32T front chainring, bash guard.

So, what do you think? Thanks for the input.

Maybe your chain simply is a few links too long, or has a stiff link?
Im on M9000 XTR 1X11 and have never dropped a chain in 5,000 miles. So I guess yes some front chainring designs reduce the risk of dropping chains. PS: I don't use a chainguide

Race Face Narrow Wide Chainring - Review - Pinkbike

First Look: Shimano's New Deore XT Group - Pinkbike
Shimano uses their own "DYNAMIC CHAIN ENGAGEMENT" on their chainrings that does the same thing differently.

anyway the Narrow wide chainring works pretty well by itself but but coupled with a clutched rear derailleur and you will almost never drop a chain. I'm running one on my rigid setup 1x9 with a non-clutch RD so on rare occasions I still drop a chain. Had one my last time out actually on it. The raceface ones are cheap $30 on amazon so worth a shot.

I'd get a narrow wide ring and ditch the bashguard if you don't "use" it. I've been running N/W rings on my bikes and I've yet to drop a chain. I've done shuttle runs and ski resorts...never dropped a chain.

Interesting. I guess I'll check into a N/W chainring and see what happens. Any ideas on the reasoning behind their effectiveness??

Why do you say that? I do have a bashguard and do use it.

The Pinkbike article explains the concept behind the narrow-wide rings. SRAM also has a couple articles explaining how their X-Sync system works.

A bashguard is only useful if you are slamming the ring on rocks/logs hard and regularly. With a single ring, the chain is always wrapped around the ring providing protection to the teeth. A bashguard is mostly dead weight at that point.

I stripped off my front gears.. all of that stuff,,GONE...

Race Face Narrow wide up front,,,NO chain keeper of any kind and NO Clutch derailleur out back,, just a lowly SLX 9 speed long cage
I did shorten my chain,,,
I have really tried to drop my chain,,, not one single time in 15 or so rides...

If you don't use it...it's just extra weight and clutter. I've come across bikes with bash guards that don't have a single scratch on them.

[/QUOTE]The Pinkbike article explains the concept behind the narrow-wide rings.[/QUOTE]

Meh. Not very well. They pretty much just say it fits snugly, so it doesn't drop. But, hey, maybe that's all there is to it..?

That's... a good point.

Oh. I thought there was some cool secret about them with dropping chains I didn't know about. Ha. On my Rincon I certainly used the crap out of the largest chainring (read: bashguard), but am noticing I'm not really doing so with the new bike. I'll give it a couple more rides and if nothing hits I'll probably remove it.

Went with the Race Face N/W chainring. It should be in next week. I'll report back accordingly.

I'm also still not sure how to determine if my chain is too long... Tips?

Lastly, these clutch derailleurs... I get how they 'lock' to not allow the chain to flop around freely, but how do they 'unlock' for shifts?? Can't find anything to really explain that.

Depending on what you already have, a Paul Chain Keeper will only set you back $45 new.

My RF n-w chainring cost me $46 and an SLX clutch dérailleur cost me $50 when I set up my last 1x10.

you could also get an outer bash guard from BBG (104bcd) for $18 and an N-gear Jump Stop for $12 ($30 total).

I have bikes configured all three ways without issues.

They don't lock, more like friction. There is a metal band inside that wraps around the pivot for the derailleur cage. That band keep tension on the derailleur cage. When it's switched off. The tension on the band is released.

The amount of added tension on the shifts is minimal...you can barely tell the difference.

Quote:

The Pinkbike article explains the concept behind the narrow-wide rings.

You listed a race face chain ring as what you had in your OP... you sure it wasn't already a narrow-wide? If it was bought as a single ring with the intentions of going 1x, it probably is.

As for chain length, remove your chain from the bike then wrap it around the front ring and the largest cog in the back and hold the ends together tight (not routed through the RD). Now wherever the chain meets, add two links to that spot and break the chain there. If you end up in the middle of a link, err on the side of making the chain longer. This should put you at a good chain length that wont bounce off as easy.

They do not lock,, they clutch

Clutch on,,more chain tension, say,,,four times more on average...
Clutch off,, no extra tension, clutch off is just like any other non clutched derailleur....
If it was LOCKED you could not down shift....

The New revised Shimano XT M8000 rear derailleur has an external clutch tension adjustment screw,, I am waiting patiently...

I recently installed 1x drivetrain on my Kona Splice, using a RaceRace 32T crank/chain ring(wide/narrow teeth) and Shimano XT rd/cassette/shifter. I've ridden the setup over 150 miles and have not had a single chain drop. Not one. The combination of the wide/narrow chainring, and the Shimano XT rd that really tensions the chain make for a smooth and almost silent drivetrain even over rough terrain. Worth every penny, best upgrade I've ever done to any bicycle.

I know how a clutch derailleur works, unfortunately I don't know how to review my posts to make sure I got all of the quote tags in..

My main point was that he needs to make sure he doesn't already have a N/W chain ring before buying a new one, and that he may not need a clutch RD if his chain is the correct length.

I have ridden many miles of rocks, drops, and roots with only a N/W ring and correct chain length - no clutch needed.

That was my first fix for my 1st 1x system.

It worked BUT, when I rode in the nasty stuff chain suck caused me a few problems,,
I had things get jammed inside the Paul CK more than once stopping my drive train Instantly.
Setting the thing just right was critical, I damaged it twice, had to file out some of the soft aluminum to get a smooth channel again..

I must have ridden beyond It's design limits as It was mostly destroyed after I think 20 rides,,,four months...

Still, $45 was a good price to pay to learn that a 1X was right for me..

I know you've all been on pins and needles...

Got the RaceFace N/W chainring in and installed it (fun fact: chainring bolts differ in length based on whether or not you run a bash guard. Now I know). I took it out tonight, went on the route I had the most chain drops, rode the piss out of the hardest parts (upped the pucker factor a bit more than comfort would like and was extra abusive on the bike). Not one dropped chain.

Looks like you're all good guessers . Thanks for the help... I'll report back if things go awry after more thorough testing (in hindsight I probably should have kept it in the lowest gear during the bomb sessions to put the worst case scenario forth for it).

And yes, I inspected the original chainring and it was just a normal one. Makes sense on the clutch derailleur. Friction is accounted for in the shift levers. Cool.

Cheers.

I had a 2x9 running XTR m960 derailleur and for chits and giggles tried to go 1x9 and dropping the chain was an issue, which I fully expected but figured I'd try it out.

As of a week ago I went to 1x10 with XT der with the clutch and I'm loving the change. NO chain drop, no chain slap and the list goes on.

Was a nice upgrade that myself and the bike needed.

I haven't gotten out my calipers yet, but I can see by looking at them at all NW rings are not created equally.

SRAM invented them (but apparently didn't patent?? ) and it seems to me like they have thicker 'wide' teeth than others. Raceface in particular seems the skinniest.

I've got 6 ( 3 oval and 3 round) different NW rings and the teeth are all slightly different in some way. From the narrow wide design to the height and width of the teeth.

SRAM did patent the "X-Sync" on their rings. The Chromag Sequence has the X-Sync which they licensed from SRAM.

Interesting. The patent must be pretty narrow if extremely similar rings from others are on the market, unlicensed.