All the modern conveniences
#1
Thread Starter
Disco Infiltrator




Joined: May 2013
Posts: 15,328
Likes: 3,517
From: Folsom CA
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
All the modern conveniences
Last week I rented an Ibis Mojo HD4 and rode it about 10 miles / 1250 ft. That's not a lot, I know, but it's a very different bike than my Hardrock, and I wanted to share my impressions of all the cool features you read about but maybe don't get to try.
First, I do think renting a bike is great. Shop rentals are usually like $75, for factory demos it's often less than $50. That's very affordable for bikes that can easily cost north of $5000. If there's a traveling demo near you, go and thrash. This bike was rented from Spokesman in Santa Cruz, and they not only set the seat height but also set up the suspension pressure and preload and strapped on a bag of tools before I went out the door.
Second, let me compare the bike I often ride to what I rented. The bike I've got is a Hardrock from 2002, 24-speed Acera, V brakes. This is nearly the bottom model for Specialized that year, I think below it there was a 26" Hotrock that year with Tourney. The equivalent modern bike is the Pitch. I have it upgraded with a much nicer Duke fork that is ill-maintained, and some very nice race-level and lightweight WTB tires.
By contrast the Ibis had...
All premium quality parts including a carbon frame
1x SRAM drivetrain
Hydraulic disk brakes
27.5 x 2.5" tires - Maxxis ones with big lugs
Good quality full suspension. The rear was a Fox Float and the front was a RS Pike, both easily switched between soft, medium, and nearly-locked-out
Slack head tube, short stem & wide handlebars
Dropper seat post
And here's what I thought of all that...
The premium and some carbon fiber components show up two ways. First, despite the big tires and full suspension, I believe the weight of it was par with my Hardrock or lighter. Second, everything felt really solid. No rattles, no flexes, no twangs.
1x is a win in my book but I don't know if the full 10-42 range is really necessary for me. Riding along the river path to the trail head I'm sure I never approached top gear, but going uphill I used the bottom quite a lot. The bottom gear is just under 20" which is normal for a MTB. I think I could have a cheaper system with just the low end of the range and be perfectly happy... take the upper rings off my triple! The system had a rumble in bottom gear but I couldn't work out whether it was coming from the rear, like it wasn't quite perfectly in gear, or from the front, where I've heard NW chain rings can be noisy. Disappeared in upper ranges. The clutch in the RD is terrific. Anyhow I'll definitely be getting something like this on my next MTB.
Hydraulic disk brakes worked great. The only thing I really noticed compared to my old V brakes is that they don't release as fast if the bike is going slow. They are smoother and they don't transmit the feel of the tire quite as well, something I never expected to notice, but didn't miss much.
Fat tires worked great. They were more trail than touring examples - so they weren't 3.0 with lots of tread, they were 2.5 with big lugs. They rode fine and never felt flat or squirmy. The big lugs were maybe not perfect for the dry and dusty conditions but didn't slide on me except when starting uphill in bottom gear, always a challenge anyhow.
Full suspension is another win IF it's selectable. Rear suspension is great overall, but I think without the selectable stiffness, I wouldn't want it. The 3-position switch on the rear makes it nearly locked out for riding to the trail and middle position was good for uphill. I did have some trouble getting used to the bob when going slow uphill over a root, it would surprise me and throw off my pedaling compared to the clunk I'd expect from my hardtail. Going downhill full soft, it was really great. I'm so used to the clunk and clatter of my bike and between the rear shock and clutch derailleur it was all gone. The fork was not as nice. I think it's not Rockshox's fault but the shop pumped it up too stiff for me, or at least a lot stiffer than my Duke. Again, the 3-position selection worked great. Neither end had a handlebar remote, but I didn't miss it. The only remote on the handlebar was for the dropper. The shock can be switched on the fly, no more difficult than reaching for the water bottle. You could probably manage to reach down to the fork too.
The geometry is all for downhill. It sort of disappears because it's working so well. But I spent so much more time going uphill that it gives me some complaints. The bigger wheels combined with the slack head tube angle causes a lot of flop after the tire crests a rock. I frequently felt as though the steering was being twisted out of my hands. I'm also on the fence about the super wide handlebar. Something about it is saying, "We've been telling you for thirty years to keep your elbows up and you just won't do it so we are going to make you." I found myself cheating my hands inward over the brake clamp bands during all the uphill.
And finally the dropper post. My habits are wrong for this thing, which probably means my habits are wrong. I use the seat quite a bit during downhill, holding my thigh against it even when I'm not sitting on it. When I managed to remember to use the dropper, I didn't feel in control.
Because of all this, I think my opinion is changing about what kind of bike I want in the future. It will be FS, for starters, but I think it will be less travel than this one... 5" not 6" travel. I might step back a year or two for a steeper head tube, but that's not crucial. As usual I can stand not to have all the very best stuff as long as the contact points are nice... but for a MTB this definitely includes the fork and shock, because they make a big difference to the level of enjoyment.
First, I do think renting a bike is great. Shop rentals are usually like $75, for factory demos it's often less than $50. That's very affordable for bikes that can easily cost north of $5000. If there's a traveling demo near you, go and thrash. This bike was rented from Spokesman in Santa Cruz, and they not only set the seat height but also set up the suspension pressure and preload and strapped on a bag of tools before I went out the door.
Second, let me compare the bike I often ride to what I rented. The bike I've got is a Hardrock from 2002, 24-speed Acera, V brakes. This is nearly the bottom model for Specialized that year, I think below it there was a 26" Hotrock that year with Tourney. The equivalent modern bike is the Pitch. I have it upgraded with a much nicer Duke fork that is ill-maintained, and some very nice race-level and lightweight WTB tires.
By contrast the Ibis had...
All premium quality parts including a carbon frame
1x SRAM drivetrain
Hydraulic disk brakes
27.5 x 2.5" tires - Maxxis ones with big lugs
Good quality full suspension. The rear was a Fox Float and the front was a RS Pike, both easily switched between soft, medium, and nearly-locked-out
Slack head tube, short stem & wide handlebars
Dropper seat post
And here's what I thought of all that...
The premium and some carbon fiber components show up two ways. First, despite the big tires and full suspension, I believe the weight of it was par with my Hardrock or lighter. Second, everything felt really solid. No rattles, no flexes, no twangs.
1x is a win in my book but I don't know if the full 10-42 range is really necessary for me. Riding along the river path to the trail head I'm sure I never approached top gear, but going uphill I used the bottom quite a lot. The bottom gear is just under 20" which is normal for a MTB. I think I could have a cheaper system with just the low end of the range and be perfectly happy... take the upper rings off my triple! The system had a rumble in bottom gear but I couldn't work out whether it was coming from the rear, like it wasn't quite perfectly in gear, or from the front, where I've heard NW chain rings can be noisy. Disappeared in upper ranges. The clutch in the RD is terrific. Anyhow I'll definitely be getting something like this on my next MTB.
Hydraulic disk brakes worked great. The only thing I really noticed compared to my old V brakes is that they don't release as fast if the bike is going slow. They are smoother and they don't transmit the feel of the tire quite as well, something I never expected to notice, but didn't miss much.
Fat tires worked great. They were more trail than touring examples - so they weren't 3.0 with lots of tread, they were 2.5 with big lugs. They rode fine and never felt flat or squirmy. The big lugs were maybe not perfect for the dry and dusty conditions but didn't slide on me except when starting uphill in bottom gear, always a challenge anyhow.
Full suspension is another win IF it's selectable. Rear suspension is great overall, but I think without the selectable stiffness, I wouldn't want it. The 3-position switch on the rear makes it nearly locked out for riding to the trail and middle position was good for uphill. I did have some trouble getting used to the bob when going slow uphill over a root, it would surprise me and throw off my pedaling compared to the clunk I'd expect from my hardtail. Going downhill full soft, it was really great. I'm so used to the clunk and clatter of my bike and between the rear shock and clutch derailleur it was all gone. The fork was not as nice. I think it's not Rockshox's fault but the shop pumped it up too stiff for me, or at least a lot stiffer than my Duke. Again, the 3-position selection worked great. Neither end had a handlebar remote, but I didn't miss it. The only remote on the handlebar was for the dropper. The shock can be switched on the fly, no more difficult than reaching for the water bottle. You could probably manage to reach down to the fork too.
The geometry is all for downhill. It sort of disappears because it's working so well. But I spent so much more time going uphill that it gives me some complaints. The bigger wheels combined with the slack head tube angle causes a lot of flop after the tire crests a rock. I frequently felt as though the steering was being twisted out of my hands. I'm also on the fence about the super wide handlebar. Something about it is saying, "We've been telling you for thirty years to keep your elbows up and you just won't do it so we are going to make you." I found myself cheating my hands inward over the brake clamp bands during all the uphill.
And finally the dropper post. My habits are wrong for this thing, which probably means my habits are wrong. I use the seat quite a bit during downhill, holding my thigh against it even when I'm not sitting on it. When I managed to remember to use the dropper, I didn't feel in control.
Because of all this, I think my opinion is changing about what kind of bike I want in the future. It will be FS, for starters, but I think it will be less travel than this one... 5" not 6" travel. I might step back a year or two for a steeper head tube, but that's not crucial. As usual I can stand not to have all the very best stuff as long as the contact points are nice... but for a MTB this definitely includes the fork and shock, because they make a big difference to the level of enjoyment.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
"Well, well!" said Holmes, impatiently. "A good cyclist does not need a high road. The moor is intersected with paths and the moon is at the full."
Genesis 49:16-17
"Well, well!" said Holmes, impatiently. "A good cyclist does not need a high road. The moor is intersected with paths and the moon is at the full."
#2
Advanced Slacker

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,286
Likes: 2,602
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Last week I rented an Ibis Mojo HD4 and rode it about 10 miles / 1250 ft. That's not a lot, I know, but it's a very different bike than my Hardrock, and I wanted to share my impressions of all the cool features you read about but maybe don't get to try.
First, I do think renting a bike is great. Shop rentals are usually like $75, for factory demos it's often less than $50. That's very affordable for bikes that can easily cost north of $5000. If there's a traveling demo near you, go and thrash. This bike was rented from Spokesman in Santa Cruz, and they not only set the seat height but also set up the suspension pressure and preload and strapped on a bag of tools before I went out the door.
Second, let me compare the bike I often ride to what I rented. The bike I've got is a Hardrock from 2002, 24-speed Acera, V brakes. This is nearly the bottom model for Specialized that year, I think below it there was a 26" Hotrock that year with Tourney. The equivalent modern bike is the Pitch. I have it upgraded with a much nicer Duke fork that is ill-maintained, and some very nice race-level and lightweight WTB tires.
By contrast the Ibis had...
All premium quality parts including a carbon frame
1x SRAM drivetrain
Hydraulic disk brakes
27.5 x 2.5" tires - Maxxis ones with big lugs
Good quality full suspension. The rear was a Fox Float and the front was a RS Pike, both easily switched between soft, medium, and nearly-locked-out
Slack head tube, short stem & wide handlebars
Dropper seat post
And here's what I thought of all that...
The premium and some carbon fiber components show up two ways. First, despite the big tires and full suspension, I believe the weight of it was par with my Hardrock or lighter. Second, everything felt really solid. No rattles, no flexes, no twangs.
1x is a win in my book but I don't know if the full 10-42 range is really necessary for me. Riding along the river path to the trail head I'm sure I never approached top gear, but going uphill I used the bottom quite a lot. The bottom gear is just under 20" which is normal for a MTB. I think I could have a cheaper system with just the low end of the range and be perfectly happy... take the upper rings off my triple! The system had a rumble in bottom gear but I couldn't work out whether it was coming from the rear, like it wasn't quite perfectly in gear, or from the front, where I've heard NW chain rings can be noisy. Disappeared in upper ranges. The clutch in the RD is terrific. Anyhow I'll definitely be getting something like this on my next MTB.
Hydraulic disk brakes worked great. The only thing I really noticed compared to my old V brakes is that they don't release as fast if the bike is going slow. They are smoother and they don't transmit the feel of the tire quite as well, something I never expected to notice, but didn't miss much.
Fat tires worked great. They were more trail than touring examples - so they weren't 3.0 with lots of tread, they were 2.5 with big lugs. They rode fine and never felt flat or squirmy. The big lugs were maybe not perfect for the dry and dusty conditions but didn't slide on me except when starting uphill in bottom gear, always a challenge anyhow.
Full suspension is another win IF it's selectable. Rear suspension is great overall, but I think without the selectable stiffness, I wouldn't want it. The 3-position switch on the rear makes it nearly locked out for riding to the trail and middle position was good for uphill. I did have some trouble getting used to the bob when going slow uphill over a root, it would surprise me and throw off my pedaling compared to the clunk I'd expect from my hardtail. Going downhill full soft, it was really great. I'm so used to the clunk and clatter of my bike and between the rear shock and clutch derailleur it was all gone. The fork was not as nice. I think it's not Rockshox's fault but the shop pumped it up too stiff for me, or at least a lot stiffer than my Duke. Again, the 3-position selection worked great. Neither end had a handlebar remote, but I didn't miss it. The only remote on the handlebar was for the dropper. The shock can be switched on the fly, no more difficult than reaching for the water bottle. You could probably manage to reach down to the fork too.
The geometry is all for downhill. It sort of disappears because it's working so well. But I spent so much more time going uphill that it gives me some complaints. The bigger wheels combined with the slack head tube angle causes a lot of flop after the tire crests a rock. I frequently felt as though the steering was being twisted out of my hands. I'm also on the fence about the super wide handlebar. Something about it is saying, "We've been telling you for thirty years to keep your elbows up and you just won't do it so we are going to make you." I found myself cheating my hands inward over the brake clamp bands during all the uphill.
And finally the dropper post. My habits are wrong for this thing, which probably means my habits are wrong. I use the seat quite a bit during downhill, holding my thigh against it even when I'm not sitting on it. When I managed to remember to use the dropper, I didn't feel in control.
Because of all this, I think my opinion is changing about what kind of bike I want in the future. It will be FS, for starters, but I think it will be less travel than this one... 5" not 6" travel. I might step back a year or two for a steeper head tube, but that's not crucial. As usual I can stand not to have all the very best stuff as long as the contact points are nice... but for a MTB this definitely includes the fork and shock, because they make a big difference to the level of enjoyment.
First, I do think renting a bike is great. Shop rentals are usually like $75, for factory demos it's often less than $50. That's very affordable for bikes that can easily cost north of $5000. If there's a traveling demo near you, go and thrash. This bike was rented from Spokesman in Santa Cruz, and they not only set the seat height but also set up the suspension pressure and preload and strapped on a bag of tools before I went out the door.
Second, let me compare the bike I often ride to what I rented. The bike I've got is a Hardrock from 2002, 24-speed Acera, V brakes. This is nearly the bottom model for Specialized that year, I think below it there was a 26" Hotrock that year with Tourney. The equivalent modern bike is the Pitch. I have it upgraded with a much nicer Duke fork that is ill-maintained, and some very nice race-level and lightweight WTB tires.
By contrast the Ibis had...
All premium quality parts including a carbon frame
1x SRAM drivetrain
Hydraulic disk brakes
27.5 x 2.5" tires - Maxxis ones with big lugs
Good quality full suspension. The rear was a Fox Float and the front was a RS Pike, both easily switched between soft, medium, and nearly-locked-out
Slack head tube, short stem & wide handlebars
Dropper seat post
And here's what I thought of all that...
The premium and some carbon fiber components show up two ways. First, despite the big tires and full suspension, I believe the weight of it was par with my Hardrock or lighter. Second, everything felt really solid. No rattles, no flexes, no twangs.
1x is a win in my book but I don't know if the full 10-42 range is really necessary for me. Riding along the river path to the trail head I'm sure I never approached top gear, but going uphill I used the bottom quite a lot. The bottom gear is just under 20" which is normal for a MTB. I think I could have a cheaper system with just the low end of the range and be perfectly happy... take the upper rings off my triple! The system had a rumble in bottom gear but I couldn't work out whether it was coming from the rear, like it wasn't quite perfectly in gear, or from the front, where I've heard NW chain rings can be noisy. Disappeared in upper ranges. The clutch in the RD is terrific. Anyhow I'll definitely be getting something like this on my next MTB.
Hydraulic disk brakes worked great. The only thing I really noticed compared to my old V brakes is that they don't release as fast if the bike is going slow. They are smoother and they don't transmit the feel of the tire quite as well, something I never expected to notice, but didn't miss much.
Fat tires worked great. They were more trail than touring examples - so they weren't 3.0 with lots of tread, they were 2.5 with big lugs. They rode fine and never felt flat or squirmy. The big lugs were maybe not perfect for the dry and dusty conditions but didn't slide on me except when starting uphill in bottom gear, always a challenge anyhow.
Full suspension is another win IF it's selectable. Rear suspension is great overall, but I think without the selectable stiffness, I wouldn't want it. The 3-position switch on the rear makes it nearly locked out for riding to the trail and middle position was good for uphill. I did have some trouble getting used to the bob when going slow uphill over a root, it would surprise me and throw off my pedaling compared to the clunk I'd expect from my hardtail. Going downhill full soft, it was really great. I'm so used to the clunk and clatter of my bike and between the rear shock and clutch derailleur it was all gone. The fork was not as nice. I think it's not Rockshox's fault but the shop pumped it up too stiff for me, or at least a lot stiffer than my Duke. Again, the 3-position selection worked great. Neither end had a handlebar remote, but I didn't miss it. The only remote on the handlebar was for the dropper. The shock can be switched on the fly, no more difficult than reaching for the water bottle. You could probably manage to reach down to the fork too.
The geometry is all for downhill. It sort of disappears because it's working so well. But I spent so much more time going uphill that it gives me some complaints. The bigger wheels combined with the slack head tube angle causes a lot of flop after the tire crests a rock. I frequently felt as though the steering was being twisted out of my hands. I'm also on the fence about the super wide handlebar. Something about it is saying, "We've been telling you for thirty years to keep your elbows up and you just won't do it so we are going to make you." I found myself cheating my hands inward over the brake clamp bands during all the uphill.
And finally the dropper post. My habits are wrong for this thing, which probably means my habits are wrong. I use the seat quite a bit during downhill, holding my thigh against it even when I'm not sitting on it. When I managed to remember to use the dropper, I didn't feel in control.
Because of all this, I think my opinion is changing about what kind of bike I want in the future. It will be FS, for starters, but I think it will be less travel than this one... 5" not 6" travel. I might step back a year or two for a steeper head tube, but that's not crucial. As usual I can stand not to have all the very best stuff as long as the contact points are nice... but for a MTB this definitely includes the fork and shock, because they make a big difference to the level of enjoyment.
Climbing with slacker head angles and wide bars / short stem takes some getting used to, and some slightly different techniques.
Same with full suspension. After a while, most people riding a FS with a good design (such as the DW-Link on the Mojo) eventually stop using the climbing switch and just leave it in the most active setting. Maybe use the climbing setting for smooth climbs like on the road.
As far as the dropper, once you learn to take advantage of the seat being lowered, most folks never want to go back. You can still brace yourself against the seat, it is just in a different place.
I try to make a point not to rent bikes I can't afford to buy. It is dangerous to my wallet.
#3
The space coyote lied.



Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 48,712
Likes: 10,973
From: dusk 'til dawn.
Bikes: everywhere
[MENTION=339610]Darth Lefty[/MENTION], keep your eyes peeled for some manufacturer demos. I've hit Specialized and Norco demo days in the last couple of years. Both were completely free and a great way to test out newer bikes!
#4
Thread Starter
Disco Infiltrator




Joined: May 2013
Posts: 15,328
Likes: 3,517
From: Folsom CA
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
the factory demos in the city of Santa Cruz were so cheap it made me wonder why anyone would buy a bike.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
"Well, well!" said Holmes, impatiently. "A good cyclist does not need a high road. The moor is intersected with paths and the moon is at the full."
Genesis 49:16-17
"Well, well!" said Holmes, impatiently. "A good cyclist does not need a high road. The moor is intersected with paths and the moon is at the full."
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