robo

I finally pulled the trigger on a new frame, a brand new Jamis Dakar Pro frame with Fox RP3 rear shock.. It was on eBay for $489 with a WTB integrated headset (plus $40 shipping), and after looking at the carbon fiber rear triangle and 'horst link' 4-bar rear, i decided to go for it.

However, doing some reading after the purchase, i discovered that the newer Jamis Dakars use a 'fake' horst link design, missing the 4th link, and this apparently makes performance of the rear suspension suffer a lot. The review said there is brake jacking and poor climbing as a result of the 3-bar design.

Is this true? The reviews on MTBR were almost universally glowing, so i'm a bit confused. I could probably resell the frame for a small loss if it's really that bad, but i'm not sure what to think here.

It's my first suspended mountain bike (been riding rigid with a softride stem all these years) and wondered what you guys thought.

I probably qualify as an 'aggressive XC' rider, not a freerider, BTW, so don't say 'joo need teh 12" of rear travel dooood!!'

cydewaze

Lots of "fake" horst links out there, and it baffles me. Especially in the case of Jamis, where they used to make actual horst link bikes. In fact, I recently picked one up from Jenson a few months ago, and it rides (as expected) awesome.

I think you need to ride it before you know if the behaviour is going to be a problem for you. Some people don't notice any problems, especially if it's their first FS bike. But if you've spent a lot of time on the real thing, it might irk you.

I have no idea why Jamis got away from the horst link rears, other than maybe weight or maintenance issues. It's a pity, because the older models (like the one I have) ride great, and they climb like billygoats.

Edit: Can you post a pic of your rig, or a catalog pic of one like it? I'm interested in seeing how the rear has changed since my Dakar.

robo

Thanks for the reply. I heard it was to save money on licensing the Horst link, though on a bike that normally retails for over $3,200, it makes me scratch my head.

Well, i'll hope for the best. It's my first FS bike, but it's going to bug me knowing i'm riding on an inferior design implemented simply to save the manufacturer a few bucks.

sparks_219 

My friend has that frame w/ full XTR, Fox RP3AVA, and Fox F100X. When I rode it, it climbed like a dream and had no brake jack. I'm sure you'll be very happy.

cydewaze

Honestly I think you'll be fine. Just don't ride a horst link bike and then jump back on yours.

Seriously though, after the first ride, you'll forget all about it. At least you didn't get something really awful, like a unified rear (my apologies to those who love URT bikes).

robo

Here's the picture from Jamis of the complete bike. (they don't actually sell the frame alone) I won't have the frame for at least a week - i just got an email from the seller saying he was out of town and wouldn't be able to ship until the end of the week

But i'm glad to hear someone's ridden this frame and liked it. The reviews on MTBR.com were very positive too, except for the weight. Hopefully the carbon stays will help (the MTBR.com reviews were all for the 2004 model as far as i could tell.)

supcom

Probably did not want to pay Specialized to license their patented Horst link design.

cydewaze

@robo: Thanks for the pic. Here's mine:




@supcom: Someone else mentioned that, and I suppose it makes sense, although I guess I figured that after all this time any patent would have expired. Horst links have been on bikes for around a decade.

robo

I guess they are hoping that the advanced shock will help too? What with the pro-pedal setting in the Float RP3 AVA shock.

Maelstrom 

I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but it isn't 'missing' a link, the link is simple misplaced.

NON horst
If you look at the picture Robo posted the a linkage on the seatstay part of the rear triangle directly above the droupout. This is how kona, banshee and other companies make a 4 bar non horst link suspension design.

Horst
A horst, if you look at Cyclewaze's picture, has the linkage on the chainstay slightly forward and below the dropout. This allows the wheel to perform as it should in the fsr design. Stops most brake jack and reduces pedal feedback.

This makes a huge difference in how the bike rides, but for the cost, and for most riders, the cost isn't required. Love and enjoy your misplaced linkage, I doubt you will notice They didn't adopt it due to costs, changing the location changes neither weight or maintenance and the linkage is still there, just misplaced

cydewaze

Thanks Mael, that was a good description. A lot of people think any link near the rear dropout is a horst link, and don't realize that the correct placement is as you've indicated.

I had to jump on the frame when I saw it on Jenson. I had about given up looking for a horst link frame when that one popped up for $150. I placed the order so fast I almost typo'd my address.

supcom

A patent is good for 20 years.

cydewaze

Ok!