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Problem Putting Tubeless On

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Problem Putting Tubeless On

Old 05-08-20, 06:32 PM
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Freerunner
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Problem Putting Tubeless On

Need some advice. Converting my wife's tube to tubeless (Niner). I know that the wheels are designed for it. I bought 2 new tires, same size as old ones but are for tubeless. Have the new valve kit and the sealant. Directions say I'll need 3-4 oz of sealant. Big problem trying to put new tire on. Am using soapy water but the bead is so tight, even the Park tool tire wrench couldn't put the last of the bead over the rim. I ended up using a screwdriver (I know you shouldn't, but I needed the leverage). Now I find out my pump is not strong enough to pop the beads in place. However I did notice that there was some soapy water coming through where the spokes screw into the wheel. Is that normal for a first time? Does the sealant take care of that? I've also watched several videos, but none explain what to do when I encounter the problems I've run into. Any advice is welcomed. Thanks
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Old 05-08-20, 08:06 PM
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My experience was painful as yours. What I finally noticed is tubeless rims (at least my 3 pair) have a ledge, I.E. a raised platform on the floor of the rim, next to the rim sidewall that’s used to help the bead seat. If the bead is sitting on top of this ledge while you try to get the tire onto the rim, it’s near impossible. What you need to do is make sure the bead is sitting in the center channel of the rim, that allows the tire to be installed.

As to the soapy water at the spoke nipples sounds like a poor install of the rim tape, which needs to be designed for tubeless rims and of the proper size, else you’ll get air leaks at the nipples.

Have never needed it, but have read of needing an air compressor to get the bead to seat. I managed with my floor pump.
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Old 05-08-20, 09:09 PM
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Which tire and rims are you matching? Not all work well together, especially the older tube less time
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Old 05-08-20, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
My experience was painful as yours. What I finally noticed is tubeless rims (at least my 3 pair) have a ledge, I.E. a raised platform on the floor of the rim, next to the rim sidewall thatís used to help the bead seat. If the bead is sitting on top of this ledge while you try to get the tire onto the rim, itís near impossible. What you need to do is make sure the bead is sitting in the center channel of the rim, that allows the tire to be installed.

As to the soapy water at the spoke nipples sounds like a poor install of the rim tape, which needs to be designed for tubeless rims and of the proper size, else youíll get air leaks at the nipples.

Have never needed it, but have read of needing an air compressor to get the bead to seat. I managed with my floor pump.
Thanks for the specifics. Yep sounds like I didn't (I know I didn't) have the tire in the center. Now I have to take it off and double check that I installed the valve stem correctly. Oh well, live and learn.

I'm pretty confident that the tires and rims will work, since the owner of the LBS where I bought the bike sold them to me (and he's someone I've dealt with for years and trust).
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Old 05-08-20, 10:16 PM
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I run tubeless sealant in tubes. It saves a mess when you need to change the tire.
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Old 05-09-20, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by qclabrat View Post
Which tire and rims are you matching? Not all work well together, especially the older tube less time
OK, now I'm wondering if they are the right match. The rims are Black Flag XC (29 inch) and have a sticker notubes.com on them. The tires are Terravail EHLINE. The size of the new tires are 29 x 2.3 and the size of the old tires are 29.25. Currently the bead of the new tire is so tight in the middle of the rim, that I cannot get any type of tire tool under them, to try to remove it to replace the rim tape (I tore it using the screwdriver).
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Old 05-09-20, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Freerunner View Post
OK, now I'm wondering if they are the right match. The rims are Black Flag XC (29 inch) and have a sticker notubes.com on them. The tires are Terravail EHLINE. The size of the new tires are 29 x 2.3 and the size of the old tires are 29.25. Currently the bead of the new tire is so tight in the middle of the rim, that I cannot get any type of tire tool under them, to try to remove it to replace the rim tape (I tore it using the screwdriver).
Maybe a question for the shop, but if thatís not an option, they make different tools specifically for installing difficult tires

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CW912J0...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

***** is, this is great for the shop but can you remove and get it reseated in the woods if needed.
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Old 05-09-20, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Maybe a question for the shop, but if thatís not an option, they make different tools specifically for installing difficult tires

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CW912J0...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

***** is, this is great for the shop but can you remove and get it reseated in the woods if needed.
Wow! Thanks. I never knew these existed. Have you ever used any of these?
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Old 05-09-20, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Freerunner View Post
Wow! Thanks. I never knew these existed. Have you ever used any of these?
Not used the tire seat tool, but as I need to order sealant, will likely buy a pair, as Iím slowly migrating to tubeless,
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Old 05-09-20, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Freerunner View Post
However I did notice that there was some soapy water coming through where the spokes screw into the wheel. Is that normal for a first time? Does the sealant take care of that?
Did you apply rim tape for tubeless tires?
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Old 05-09-20, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverRubicon View Post
Did you apply rim tape for tubeless tires?
Yes
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Old 05-09-20, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Freerunner View Post
Yes
If the sealant is leaking out of the spoke holes then the tape has not been installed properly or is not adhering as it should. While many rims are tubeless ready, few come set up with tubeless tape. I'd redo that before attempting to mount the tire again.
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Old 05-09-20, 02:01 PM
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Sounds like you need to re-do the taping job. Sealant coming through the spokes pretty much guaranties this is going to not hold air for long.

Regarding how tight the tires are: Is the tape fully seated (and sticking) into the center channel of the rim? The purpose of that channel is the allow the tire bead to drop down into to give you some slack while trying to get the last bit of the bead of the tire over the rim. It can be a PITA to stretch the tape tight enough to get it to go all the way down into the channel. If it is not fully down in the channel, then the tire bead can't go down into that channel, and the tire will be a lot harder to mount.

Another question is how wide is the tape and what is the internal width of the rim?
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Old 05-09-20, 04:00 PM
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I've found that first mounting the tires with tubes can help. Then break the bead on one side only, pull out the tube and install the tubeless valve. It takes less air volume to seat just one side of the tire. I've always been able to do it with a regular pump. I take out the valve core before pumping. It has to come out anyway to add the sealant and I think you can get more air flow. Good luck!
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Old 05-09-20, 07:35 PM
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After you do the tape job, mounting with a tube, pumping it up to the max listed pressure, and then leaving it overnight is a good way to get the tape firmly set.
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Old 05-10-20, 01:28 AM
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Steve B. 's advice is very good--you need to push the beads to the center, this gives you some play. When doing this, I can get most tires on with thumbs or fingers only--sometimes finishing off just a little bit with a Pedro's lever. I use a compressor for all my installs now--once I found out how easily and fast it makes beads seat. Final thoughts, don't pour in the sealant until you have almost all of the bead on, and I've never needed soapy water except on a road bike's tubeless set up.
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Old 05-11-20, 01:50 PM
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+1 on the rim tape trouble shooting.

For stubborn bead seating issues do the following:
1. remove the tubeless inflator valve
2. install inner tube
3. pump inner tube full until bead seats (usually with audible POP)
4. break ONE bead/side (not BOTH) and remove tube
5. replace valve
6. Re-inflate until open bead seats, then set pressure
_____________

Additional steps if that doesn't work
7. If you can't get the bead to seat up properly, remove the valve stem core (small wrench, special tool, or I've used a spoke tool)
8. Place the schrader inflator chuck DIRECTLY on the now-open presta stem
9. Inflate until bead seats. You'll have to replace the inner core for it to hold air obviously but this helps get a little better rush of air inside to seat up.

Another consideration - sometimes tires are folded up and not really that round yet when you get them. Put a tube in there and ride around on them for a few days, that will get them used to their round shape and will make the sealing up with the rim easier. Then start with step 4. above to complete tubeless conversion.

You can do this!
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Old 05-17-20, 08:52 PM
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All, OP here. Thanks for all of the advice. I have since found out that these tires are some of the most difficult ones to apply. I have exchanged the tires for some Continental and was able to put them on much easier. Now it's time to go out and ride! Thanks
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