% of mountain biking is bike? % is rider?
07-13-05, 04:24 PM
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"This is easy. Mostly rider without a doubt. So long as the bike won't break and kill the rider. This is not like NASCAR. This is like motocross. Ricky Carmichael, Jeremy McGrath, Jeff Stanton, David Bailey, and other motocross greats could take a bike out of the showroom and spank the competition."
I really have to disagree with the NASCAR comment. First of all I really dont think you could take Jimmy Johnson or Dale Earnhardt Juniors car and go win a race. Motocross is the same thing. You have to realize that EVERY type of racing has this, there is no perfectly fair way to hold a race. Even IROC(International Race of Champions) has cars that are not exactly the same. And I'm pretty sure the Ricky Charmichael switched brands of bike lately, which is probably where your point is coming from, that he can win on anything, but that is exactly how NASCAR is so your basically contradicting yourself. Chevy does not win every race, either does Ford or Dodge.
I really have to disagree with the NASCAR comment. First of all I really dont think you could take Jimmy Johnson or Dale Earnhardt Juniors car and go win a race. Motocross is the same thing. You have to realize that EVERY type of racing has this, there is no perfectly fair way to hold a race. Even IROC(International Race of Champions) has cars that are not exactly the same. And I'm pretty sure the Ricky Charmichael switched brands of bike lately, which is probably where your point is coming from, that he can win on anything, but that is exactly how NASCAR is so your basically contradicting yourself. Chevy does not win every race, either does Ford or Dodge.
07-13-05, 04:25 PM
#27
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Actually when NASCAR was first started the cars literally WERE off the showroom floor. No modifications allowed.
07-13-05, 04:46 PM
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90% rider if xc speed is the issue maybe even more. However a higher quality bike is a different riding experience. for example when I first started riding I had a crappy trek that was too big for me. When after a few years I got a nice bianchi there was almost no increase in speed. However, not feeling like the bike was fighting against me and riding a bike I really like instead of hated made a huge difference in my enjoyment.
07-13-05, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bruiser2
"This is easy. Mostly rider without a doubt. So long as the bike won't break and kill the rider. This is not like NASCAR. This is like motocross. Ricky Carmichael, Jeremy McGrath, Jeff Stanton, David Bailey, and other motocross greats could take a bike out of the showroom and spank the competition."
I really have to disagree with the NASCAR comment. First of all I really dont think you could take Jimmy Johnson or Dale Earnhardt Juniors car and go win a race. Motocross is the same thing. You have to realize that EVERY type of racing has this, there is no perfectly fair way to hold a race. Even IROC(International Race of Champions) has cars that are not exactly the same. And I'm pretty sure the Ricky Charmichael switched brands of bike lately, which is probably where your point is coming from, that he can win on anything, but that is exactly how NASCAR is so your basically contradicting yourself. Chevy does not win every race, either does Ford or Dodge.
I really have to disagree with the NASCAR comment. First of all I really dont think you could take Jimmy Johnson or Dale Earnhardt Juniors car and go win a race. Motocross is the same thing. You have to realize that EVERY type of racing has this, there is no perfectly fair way to hold a race. Even IROC(International Race of Champions) has cars that are not exactly the same. And I'm pretty sure the Ricky Charmichael switched brands of bike lately, which is probably where your point is coming from, that he can win on anything, but that is exactly how NASCAR is so your basically contradicting yourself. Chevy does not win every race, either does Ford or Dodge.
In motocross, it is different. What RC did with a new bike brand has nothing to do with what I am talking about. Ricky Carmichael would be capable of beating other top pros with a bike off the showroom floor that was setup for him. For example a $6k motorcycle with the right spring rates...that's it. He could beat the other top pros who have factory bikes worth $50k.
That, my friend, is domination. Rider talent above everyone else.
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07-13-05, 06:25 PM
#30
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First you say that in NASCAR theres the way a car's setup and running. Thats the same in motocross. "because all of the top guys are pretty good" if all the top guys were good they would be pretty much equal, so no advantage there to who has the best equipment. And if RC could win with a 6K bike he would rather than having a 50K bike. The point of racing at that level is to make money. Guys don't shell out millions of dollars just to win for the satisfaction in it.
07-13-05, 07:46 PM
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Let me break it down for you:
No... it is not
What are you talking about....?
No....he is a FACTORY RIDER
I don't really see your point here either?
Originally Posted by bruiser2
First you say that in NASCAR theres the way a car's setup and running. Thats the same in motocross.
"because all of the top guys are pretty good" if all the top guys were good they would be pretty much equal, so no advantage there to who has the best equipment.
And if RC could win with a 6K bike he would rather than having a 50K bike.
The point of racing at that level is to make money. Guys don't shell out millions of dollars just to win for the satisfaction in it.
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07-13-05, 08:56 PM
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How much is the bike and how much is me? Hmmm, let me see . . . The best bike in the world will not make me a better rider. It may increase my confidence and my self image encouraging me to push my own limits but my skills and endurance have to be earned the hard way. How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice.
To answer the question, very little goes to the bike. A better bike can make for a better ride, but a better rider? That has to come from the rider.
To answer the question, very little goes to the bike. A better bike can make for a better ride, but a better rider? That has to come from the rider.
07-13-05, 09:11 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by ryder47
How much is the bike and how much is me? Hmmm, let me see . . . The best bike in the world will not make me a better rider. It may increase my confidence and my self image encouraging me to push my own limits but my skills and endurance have to be earned the hard way. How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice.
To answer the question, very little goes to the bike. A better bike can make for a better ride, but a better rider? That has to come from the rider.
To answer the question, very little goes to the bike. A better bike can make for a better ride, but a better rider? That has to come from the rider.
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07-14-05, 08:22 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
On the flip side, an expert using a student horn will be frustrated. They are used to a level of fine control and performance that doesn't exist in a "basic" model.
I think you asked the wrong questin for what you want to know. A nice bike won't make you better.
But you might enjoy riding a nicer bike better. I agree with the quote above. The question you need to ask is whether you will appreciate better componentry and a better frame. Are you skilled enough to discriminate? Probably, but probably not to the extent that you need to spend $2,000. But none of us could really guage that, though.
07-29-05, 05:51 AM
#36
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assuming the bike is not a piece of crap and is of the proper type and correctly fit and properly maintained, etc... (i.e. no wall-mart bikes -- not your dad's sister's bike that is too small - the brakes and shifting work - and not a road bike for a downhill race):
95% rider and 5% bike.
i.e. in an XC race where riders are on bikes between $400 and $5000, the winner can very well be on a $400 bike.
or in a road race where riders are on bikes from $300 to $10000, the winner can very well be on a $300 bike
or in a downhill race where riders are on bikes from $700 to $20000, the winner can very well be on a $700 bike
or from another angle: you can put joe-schmo on the most expensive bike and he's still not going to beat Lance riding a $400 no-name road bike in the Tour de France or win a dohnhill race!
95% rider and 5% bike.
i.e. in an XC race where riders are on bikes between $400 and $5000, the winner can very well be on a $400 bike.
or in a road race where riders are on bikes from $300 to $10000, the winner can very well be on a $300 bike
or in a downhill race where riders are on bikes from $700 to $20000, the winner can very well be on a $700 bike
or from another angle: you can put joe-schmo on the most expensive bike and he's still not going to beat Lance riding a $400 no-name road bike in the Tour de France or win a dohnhill race!
07-29-05, 08:58 AM
#37
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on any individual ride, i'd say 5-10% bike, the rest rider.
over any period of time, though, the bike becomes much more important. As an example, take my low-end trek 3700. When I took it to the moutains, it worked just fine. I could keep up with my buddies on their expensive rigs.
Now, 8 months after I bought the bike, it is completely useless. There's almost no parts left salvaging, except I think I'm going to go outside and take the reflectors off the wheels and put those on my commuter.
Durability is a major part of more expensive mountain bikes.
over any period of time, though, the bike becomes much more important. As an example, take my low-end trek 3700. When I took it to the moutains, it worked just fine. I could keep up with my buddies on their expensive rigs.
Now, 8 months after I bought the bike, it is completely useless. There's almost no parts left salvaging, except I think I'm going to go outside and take the reflectors off the wheels and put those on my commuter.
Durability is a major part of more expensive mountain bikes.
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07-29-05, 10:01 AM
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I'd say at least 90% rider.
Look at it this way....if you put two people of different skill and endurance levels on the same bike, who would win? If you put the guy will less skill and endurance on a superior rig, who would win? Outside of mechanical failures the rider is 100% responsible for production.
Look at it this way....if you put two people of different skill and endurance levels on the same bike, who would win? If you put the guy will less skill and endurance on a superior rig, who would win? Outside of mechanical failures the rider is 100% responsible for production.
07-29-05, 03:51 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by SFV Rider.
fill in the blanks. How do you guys feel the percentages should work out? This is assuming the rider has decent bike.. Say (hardrock) The reason I ask is becuase I recently rode with a few "Equipment is everything type of people" And frankly, their riding didn't impress me.
Now for the bonus question
I'm trying to figure out if I should fork out the cash for a "serious" bike. I started biking heavily about 4 months ago when i bought a hardrock sport. I've been riding hard religiously at least 4 times a week since. I am extremely proud of what I have been able to accomplish since that time. I'm in the best shape of my life. I went from not being able to make it up a 1 mile climb without stopping, to conquering a relatively steep 6 mile uphill climb at the same pace with people that have been biking for years. And I still feel like I have a long way to go before I am satisfied with my conditioning.
The only complaint I really have with the bike is the drivetrain, along with the fork, I feel like this is a part of the bike that needs improvement. I hear a lot of talk on this forum about the Hardrock. Some say it’s a great frame to build around. Others say it’s overrated. I’m considering upgrading the drivetrain and fork and sticking with this bike for a while. I’m also considering just going all out and buying something serious. If I was to switch out these two things, is there anything specific that you guys would recommend?
Also, say I wanted to buy a new one, and I want to spend say $2k. What would you recommend?
Now for the bonus question
I'm trying to figure out if I should fork out the cash for a "serious" bike. I started biking heavily about 4 months ago when i bought a hardrock sport. I've been riding hard religiously at least 4 times a week since. I am extremely proud of what I have been able to accomplish since that time. I'm in the best shape of my life. I went from not being able to make it up a 1 mile climb without stopping, to conquering a relatively steep 6 mile uphill climb at the same pace with people that have been biking for years. And I still feel like I have a long way to go before I am satisfied with my conditioning.
The only complaint I really have with the bike is the drivetrain, along with the fork, I feel like this is a part of the bike that needs improvement. I hear a lot of talk on this forum about the Hardrock. Some say it’s a great frame to build around. Others say it’s overrated. I’m considering upgrading the drivetrain and fork and sticking with this bike for a while. I’m also considering just going all out and buying something serious. If I was to switch out these two things, is there anything specific that you guys would recommend?
Also, say I wanted to buy a new one, and I want to spend say $2k. What would you recommend?
if nothing else I bet Rayin likes your AVATAR. seriously its mostly rider and a better bike just can take more stuff as you get more daring and either take faster lines,bigger hits ,higher jumps, or if you crash a lot, the better equipment will handle it better( ex 5" fork can take bigger hits without bottoming than 3")
08-10-05, 12:05 PM
#40
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I'd say its closer to 40% bike 60% rider when it comes to downhill... have you ever tried to ride anything super technical on a 1995 hard tail... I have an 05' V-10 and I have respect.
08-10-05, 01:23 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by phantomcow2
Im thinking closer to 30% bike and 70% rider. Yes you need a good rider to perform well but....even the best wont be very pleased if he tries downhilling with this:
If anyone ever took such a beutiful bike off road, I would shoot them myself.
08-10-05, 04:19 PM
#42
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I know things along these lines have been said before, but I refuse to put a blanket percentage on it. Why? Too many variables.
I have far more experience skiing than I do mountain biking, but I kind of think this operates the same way: Before I moved out west, I had very little experience in powder skiing. I also had skis that were designed for packed snow. Bottom line, they don't have much float to them. So when I tried to learn to ski powder, it was harder to acheive the same results, I'd imagine, than if I had powder skis. However, having powder skis wouldn't have made me a better rider. And now that I've learned how to ski powder (alright) on my current skis, I could probably rip with dedicated powder skis.
Assuming you don't have any catastrophic failures on your bike while riding, and you a setup designed for the type of riding you do, equipment is almost non-important. There's a guy I work with who rides a very old Redline with no front brakes and 1.3 inch tires. It's an unforgiving, uncomfortable ride. And yet he rips out there. Kicks my hindquarters no matter what bike I'm on.
I have far more experience skiing than I do mountain biking, but I kind of think this operates the same way: Before I moved out west, I had very little experience in powder skiing. I also had skis that were designed for packed snow. Bottom line, they don't have much float to them. So when I tried to learn to ski powder, it was harder to acheive the same results, I'd imagine, than if I had powder skis. However, having powder skis wouldn't have made me a better rider. And now that I've learned how to ski powder (alright) on my current skis, I could probably rip with dedicated powder skis.
Assuming you don't have any catastrophic failures on your bike while riding, and you a setup designed for the type of riding you do, equipment is almost non-important. There's a guy I work with who rides a very old Redline with no front brakes and 1.3 inch tires. It's an unforgiving, uncomfortable ride. And yet he rips out there. Kicks my hindquarters no matter what bike I'm on.
08-10-05, 05:07 PM
#43
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i'd say it's more the rider, but to a smaller extent, the bike. I can still whip my friend's a** when we trade bikes, even though his is 20 lbs heavier and 20 years older. I'm in better shape. A better bike bike will just make you a little faster, make the ride a little sweeter, and leave you feeling a little better.
08-10-05, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by xcdan2001
I'd say its closer to 40% bike 60% rider when it comes to downhill... have you ever tried to ride anything super technical on a 1995 hard tail... I have an 05' V-10 and I have respect.
