I understand there were frame and warranty issues a few years back. Any great improvements on either since then?

Paging lowcell

Yes and yes.......

The problems with the frames were primarily from 2000 (or 2001) to 2003. They were having a lot of them break on the seat tube. At the time Ellsworth was offering a "lifetime" warranty. The problem with the warranty was that constant changes were being made to the frames. This meant if it was 2002 and you broke a 2000 model frame that they may not have the part that you needed any longer (making up years here). This meant that they would give you a new front triangle (example) however you had to buy the new rear triangle, linkage, etc to make it work. A lot of people were not happy with this (who can blame them). There are other reports from a friend of a friend's first cousin's baby's momma that they would not honor the warranty at all. So take that for what it's worth, it could be true, I dunno.

Anyway, starting in 2004 they started making the frames stronger with more bracing. This did add a little weight but it made it much stronger. Since then there are very few reports of broken frames. Any that have been broken (primarily cracking on the chain stays) have been taken care of right away.

As far as their warranty they have changed that as well. In 2005 (or late 2004) they went from a "lifetime" warranty that they honored most of the time to a two year warranty that they do honor. Personally I would much rather have a warranty that I can rely on even if it is for a shorter period of time.

Take a little time to check out the Ellsworth forum over at MTBR. It's pretty interesting if you check out posts now verse posts a couple of years old. The posts have gone from pretty much negative to mostly positive. People now stand in line to defend Ellsworth where they used to just love to bash them. Now there are still plenty of bashers out there, most of which have probably never even ridden an Ellsworth.

Just keep in mind, bad news spreads much, much faster than good. I hope this helps out a little, I went through all of the same questions when making my decisions to purchase my Ellsworths.

Thanks, Lowcel - will do. Seriously considering an Ellsworth if I decide to sell the Cake. When discussing this with another BF member, he had sort of mentioned the issues of my concern. Want to make sure I'm taking the right considerations, for the only reason to sell the Gary is my own fear of it. I think it's a little too big for me but otherwise it's an excellent bike.

I have never owned a Cake but I have owned a Sugar 1 and a Sugar 2+. All I can tell you is that there is absolutely no comparison.

thx for the post LowCel....i never know that...i just bought an ellsworth frame ISIS last year but i believe its some eailer model...coz they didn't make ISIS in 05....its prolly 04/03 frame.. brand new tho..or before 01?> i have no clue....i guess it can hold up right? the reason i bought it was becuase i cracked the toptube (not welds) but the tube on the GT zaskar after 1.5 season of XC

Get the Ellsworth Truth 06 version, much have improved and it looks nicer ^^, asymetrical swingarm ^^

LOL, when I read the thread title all I could think was "break at the bottom bracket?"