New bikes suck, ugh
 

Right now I'm under the impression that in the bike industry, newer isn't necessarily better. This year I bought 2 new bikes, a Specialized Allez Elite and a Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc. I've had more problems with these 2 bikes then I've had with all of the bikes that I've owned in the last 30 years, ugh.

The Rockhopper was a 2006 model. Before I paid for it I took it for a test ride and noticed the BB5's made terrible noises when braking as well as a little trouble with the shifting. I mentioned this to the mechanic and they worked on the problems while I waited. They replaced the pads and made some adjustments for the shifting and that seemed to fix those problems. I paid for it and took it home. The next several days I noticed lots of noises on the bike that I'm not used to and don't consider normal. The brakes really impressed me with their stopping power but they continued to make noise, both when using them and then sometimes when not (sometimes they would just rub and make a scraping noise). Then whenever I would make a turn, there were ticking noises coming from what sounded like the wheels / spokes. I removed the wheel reflectors and that took care of some of the noise but not entirely. Then the Tora fork would squeak when really compressed and then make a "thunk" noise sometimes.

This bike was going to replace my 10+-year-old GT Pantera, but the Pantera actually works better than the Rockhopper and is a lot quieter to boot. I've ridden the Pantera very hard over the last 10 years and it still rides like it's brand new (I've replaced the BB, cassette, chain, tires and that's it). I was just ready for a "new" bike. It was a tough decision but in the end I decided to return the Rockhopper because the deadline for returning the bike was almost up and I wasn't sure they'd be able to correct all the noise issues. I'm not sure how much of the problems were due to poor setup by the bike shop and how much of it was the actual equipment itself. The bike sure felt nice to ride if you didn't mind all of the noises.

The Allez Elite: I really love how it rides. It's a really smooth riding and comfortable bike. However, tonight I bent the rim in the rear. The bike has less than 700 miles. I was doing about 30 mph going downhill and hit a rock about the size of a quarter. I didn't see it in time to avoid it. As soon as I ran over it, I could hear a scraping sound coming from the rear wheel. Sure enough, the rim is bent. The tires were inflated to 120 lbs (I inflate before every ride). I've been riding bikes for 30 years (and lots of miles) and I've never had a bent rim before, even though I know I've hit things harder in the past with no damage. I'm not super heavy (180 lbs), so I don't think that's a factor. Are the ALX 295 rims poor quality rims or what? On top of that, the shifting is really nice on some chainrings / gears, but on others, not so sweet (105 group). I know to avoid certain combinations of chainrings / gears. Again, no better than my 10 year old equipment (maybe worse). I'm pretty disgusted because for me, spending $1100 on this bike (the most I've ever spent) and having these problems doesn't make me very happy. I have an appointment to take the bike in next week for a tune-up and to fix the rim. I just don't have a warm fuzzy feeling about the durability of this bike.

Like I've mentioned, I've been biking for 30 years and have always loved it. I've never had problems like above with any of my previous bikes. It was part of the appeal of biking - the simplicity of it. It makes me wonder if all of the strides in the biking industry to make things lightweight may have compromised the overall strength / durability of these new bikes.

At this point I can't really see myself going out and buying anything new based on my bad experiences with the last 2 bikes. If I have more problems with the ALX 295 rims on the Allez I'll probably replace them with better rims and then be done with any new bikes.

New technology != better IMO

*edit* New bikes are good, aparently the shop you got them from sucks. And apperently you aren't aware that 120 psi in a road tire is most likely way too much, and when you hit a rock **** breaks.

If you ask this question on the roadie forum, most responses will say yes. If the shop can straighten the rim out for you, see about selling them on ebay or Craigslist, and getting something else. Or maybe the shop will allow you to trade up. I'm actually a bit surprised that the Allez Elite comes with them.

Actually 120psi for road tires isn't too much. In a road tire you want to have the most psi to have the least amount of tire on the ground which equals less road resistance. i pump my road tires up to 110 psi and my xc tires up to 60 psi. The rims just suck if they bend when you hit a bump that small.

i've had no problem with my '06 rockhopper comp disc... but the front caliper needs fixing (i can do that on my own), it's dragging sometimes when i turn, but my brakes don't squeal at all...

sometimes people get their share of lemons.

Sounds like minor tune up stuff. Learn to troubleshoot your own stuff and you will get it exactly the way you want it. A bike mechanic will only spend enough time to get the problem fixed quickly whereas you can take the time on your own bike to get it to your liking.

And I have a 2005 Allez Elite with over 5000 miles on it...I'm 195 and I've never had a problem with the wheelset and I run the tires between 115-120psi.

I bought 3 new Treks (Fuel EX8, FX7.5, 2100ZR) in the last year and they have only been back to my LBS for a 30 day check. They have been one of the best purchases I have made in my life and make me want to ride more often. The biggest reason I bought Trek is because the service at my LBS is second to none and I shopped around quite a bit so there would not be any problems if they do arise.

I dont know how my rockhopper rides yet and it really wont be the one that you would buy at the store anyway, but it seems that the more technologically advanced a product becomes the more that can go wrong. It may work well when it works..but when it fails it's failure is catastrophic. When my old bike fails its something small usually. Same thing with cars, When my 88 wrangler fails its something small. When my 99 Jetta fails call the tow truck tow it to the dealer and empty your pockets onto the table.

You are a ****ing ******

I will echo the comments that it sounds like the LBS did a poor assembly, initial tuning job...some of it also could be initial cable stretch...LBS should be able to straighten it out and if they can't it is a great time to learn. www.parktools.com is a great resource.

Alex wheels suck...Alex rims can be ok but they have to be build well and most wheels built with them are not built well. Again you LBS should have tensioned the wheels right out of the box and I am guessing they didn't...a good wheel guy shoul dbe able to get the tensions pretty good and those wheels will be eh. Man I hate Alex and Xero wheels...the bike companies put them on to save money...go buy some 32 spoke 3x DT Swiss RR1.1 or Mavic Open Pro rims laced to 105 or Ultegra hubs with double butted spokes. Should cost less than $400 and will last for thousands of miles.

Depends on the roads and trails. On rough roads I like to have my road tires at 95psi to take the edge off, on the trails my hardtail is much better mannered with 36psi in the latex tubes. Believe it or not but scientific testing has shown that lower pressure can REDUCE rolling resistance. If the surface is rough the upward deflection caused by going over bumps produces less resistance when it is more fully absorbed by the tire rather than causing the bike and rider to move upwards. Think of how much energy is expended lifting you and your bike up a mm or two, now multiply that by all the little surface irregularities you encounter. It adds up to a lot of energy over a couple of hours.

Back on topic, I too believe that bikes are starting to plateau in terms of tech, it seems that things are just getting slightly lighter now. With that said, IMO newer is better, but perhaps not by enough to upgrade every couple of years.

I do most of my own tuneup / repairs on my bikes. I have bought Park tools in order to do the repairs. I just felt that I shouldn't have to do those things on a brand new bike - that's the reason I returned it.

The LBS was voted best in the city, but I haven't been that impressed with them myself.

I kinda agree that more technology doesn't mean better.

Personally, I think Shimano should not have put 9 speed into mass production for mountain bikes, and 10 speed for road.

The drivetrains are too fragile. The shifting isn't as precise and due to the compact nature of the cassette, rubbing will occur. Trying to get the front derailleur adjusted so you don't get scraping in your basic (most common) gear combos is an exercise in aggrevation.

With all the new suspension technology and all the adjustment controls, its very difficult to have your suspension tuned properly for every ride.

Everything is a compromise.

Disc brakes rub slightly. I've spent a lot of time tinkering with mine to get them not to. But the performance outweighs the hassle, so I continue to run discs. Sure, once set I haven't had to mess around with them, but it took some time to get them right.

I don't really see this. Mountain bikes in general have gotten heavier in the last 10 years.

I think the issue is technology vs. quality. They want to sell you a bike with all the latest technology (disc brakes lets say) but do it for cheap, so the quality has to go down.

The fact of the matter is, and I know I will get harrassed for this, the Rockhopper you bought is a relatively inexpensive bike. If you want a perfectly functioning, smooth, quiet, durable, lightweight bike, (like your old bikes) you have to spend a bunch of money. I also think there are a lot of new riders out there, that don't have 30 years of experience on quality bikes, that just don't know what a high quality bike feels like.

here comes the harassment :D

well it would suck for everyone if every time you wanted a decent bike you would have to cough up 3 grand and more eh? even if you got a great bike, if it's not set up properly by your bike shop or yourself, it's gonna suck. these days there's much more that goes into a bike, more complicated parts so it takes more time to set up properly. shifting and brakes have nothing to do with rockhoppers specifically or even specialized for that matter, the same thing comes on a lot of bikes in that price range. those problems should rather have been corrected by your bike shop.

it's like when you finally get a bose home theatre system setup for 5 grand and then someone goes "oh, bose is just cheap crap, if you want sound quality you would have to spend 50 grand on these handmade german tweeters, and these japanese woofers... and this one hand-made with rare south american rainforest wood... even if you have that kind of system, if you stick it in a gymnasium it's still going to sound horrible.

Exactly, and thats why I wouldn't waste my money on a crappy bose stereo system.:D

or crappy benzes and bimmers... it's all about custom-made ferraris from Pininfarina... just because stock enzos suck because they aren't light and aerodynamic enough... (see current car&driver) :D

While I don't agree with the specifics of the original poster, I sure do agree with the spirit. What the hell is up with new bikes?

First, I'm a big dude. 6'2" and 360lb of big. I'm also a powerful dude, I keep up with and outride those a third of my size. Right now I'm riding a ten year old 18" Raleigh M40. It's painfully too short for me. But, I wonder if I'm going to find anything better? This bike has served me beautifully for the past two months and probably 600-700 miles (yeah, I'm getting into it pretty hardcore again). The only things that have broke are the rusty old chain, and some dry-rotted rear tires. Some cheap-but-wonderful Specialized Hardrock'r tires with Bontrager anti-thorn tubes fixed that problem.

But.. I keep test riding new bikes and coming back underwhelmed. Anything under $500 is pure junk. Like, I don't care if it fits me better, that stuff is worse than the old Raleigh (which admittedly is butter smooth and squeak-free). Don't even get me started on suspension, I'm looking specifically for bikes with TPC lockouts because I *hate* suspension forks.. even on the trail. It seems that you have to start at $700 to get anything decent for a complete bike.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of complete bikes below $500 with amazing frames. The Hardrock series, for one, looks like you could throw it off a cliff a dozen times, and it *MIGHT* get dented. Hell, the old tried-and-true Trek 820 is still steel, albeit low quality with horrendously bad components. Some of the Fisher Genesis bikes are available under $500. And you can probably get a Cannondale F300 for under that, along with a couple Konas.

But really, even when you hit $700, you aren't getting spectacular. The best one I've found yet is the Trek 6500. The XT rear derailuer is smooth and wonderful, it rides perfectly, and the front suspension actually isn't half bad when it isn't locked out. Oh, and the brakes, the brakes are great. I'm not talking about the fancy discs, nope I've been underwhlemed with those, that thing has good old v-brakes that feel wonderful and will stop my tubby ass from 20mph in no time.

For comparison, I also tried out the "Clydesdale bike" Kona Hoss. What a brilliant piece of marketing. It's got a big badass frame, but really, it doesn't LOOK any more sturdy than that of the Hardrocks or the 6500. And the components, for $900 you get... Deore. Not even LX, you just get the basic Deore. It's the classic "big and tall" syndrome, you get less quality for more money. There's no way I'll ever buy a Hoss, it's a total rip-off. Nice frame, ****ty package.

And don't get me started on suspension bikes. The only one I've EVER liked is the Stumpjumper FSR. What a wonderful machine, but $2800? For the love..

Where I tried the Kona I heard lots of Trek and Specialized bashing. Well, frankly, those are the two that have impressed me the most! Right now my list basically goes Trek 6500 and a two-way tie between the Hardrock Comp Disc and a Cannondale F400. It's like the Harley-Davidson syndrome. They poo-poo imports, but the imports totally kick their ass.

I suppose it depends on your definition of "better." All I know is that my road bike is fairly light and has carbon fork and seat post and only cost $520 brand new. It's way better than most $1000 road bikes of 10 years ago. So you get twice the bike for half the money.

Look, you are generalizing that all new bikes are bad based on your experiences. I would contend that your experiences are not the norm, and that most people don't have the trouble with new bikes that you have had. Some people can break an anvil after all.

It is a common mistake for people to describe an improperly adjusted bike as a bad bike. It's not bad, it's just improperly adjusted.

I agree but I cant comment on the difference yet. I rode a trek fuel 80 and it felt kinda nice. I was kind of heavy for me but it felt nice and smooth. confident even. My old Hardrock still feels like a surgical tool compared to it though. Its light and precise, I can put it where I want it and it climbs like a goat. I cant wait to ride my rockhopper. If I had more time to get used to the trek I'm sure the same thing it true of that bike as my friend really likes it alot.

+1 Good one Portis, I like it when Shimano introduces a new gear set up or new brakes or shifters. That means I can upgrade to the other, recently outdated stuff for cheap.

The only thing I'm sure of is... what one person loves.. another hates.

Why do you like that Hardrock, of the (I think) four available? I'm currently looking at that series, and while my LBS is trying to sell me on the Hardrock Pro, I was leaning toward the Hardrock Sport (I've never biked before and this is an entry bike to see if it'll tickle my fancy. But I'm a big guy, so your insight in particular would be invaluable.)

Thanks!

Hmmm side question then... do you guys think for a large guy the Hardrock frame is a better choice over the Rockhopper? I mean if you compare Hardrock Pro vs Rockhopper Comp Disc... components are pretty much the same except for the fork and frame... but I see a lot of bigger guys going for the Hardrock.

To say that new bikes suck is just plain stupid. How can you make a statement like that when there are so much different brands and bikes in different price ranges that you dont have experience with? Also your bike doesnt seem in that bad a condition. If youre not happy with the shops work just learn to find and eliminate the sounds yourself, it is not so difficult actually. Theres a big difference in the experience youll get when a bike is properly working and adjusted. You could just bring the bike to the shop and let them fix the sounds, for FREE. Just dont make statements like this when you have no real justifying reason.

Sounds like your bike was tuned poorly. I haven't had any of the problems or noises you describe on my rockhopper.

Then i saw this -

In 30 years, you have never sent a wheel out of true? Ever? I don't believe that.

That sentence makes me question your entire post.

The Hardrock, to me, just feels right. It's light, it moves with precision, and.. it's fun! Most of my judgement o the bikes lies in fit and ride quality, and the Hardrock ranks right up there - ironically with two bikes that are about $300 more than it. I was impressed with the components, even on a "cheap" bike, and the frame. I mean, that frame is just a damned tank. Can't believe it.

I'd echo their suggestion of the Pro or the Comp Disc at least. The front shock on the Sport is... well.. yeah :). For bigger guys that's a big concern, one reason I took probably a ten foot ride on the Cannondale F300. The shock was horribly soft.

Anyway, I really like the Hardrock. And I really liked the Stumpjumper series, but eliminated them due to price. I would give the Comp or Pro a ride, then ride the Sport.

But, don't limit yourself. Try out other bikes in the price range and go with the one that feels the best. The worst thing is to buy a bike just because of the name/brand/components, then end up with a poorly-fitting bike that you don't enjoy riding.

I said I never had a bent rim in 30 years of riding, which is true. I've had wheels go out of true that were fixed under normal tuneups, but that kind of thing is normal IMO. I've been driving cars for 30 years too and never bent a rim, but I've had them go out of balance, again something I consider normal.

I think the thing that bothers me is the size of the rock (small in my opinion) that I hit was able to do damage to the wheel like it did. I've run over rocks that size many times before on previous bikes and it didn't break anything. Now, I guess it could have been a freak incident (hitting the rock at a weird angle, etc.), but I'm having a hard time believing that.

The more people I talk to the more tell me that the rims / wheels I have aren't really that great in terms of quality or durability. I'm finding that hard to accept considering I spent $1100 on this bike (which is a lot of $$$ to me). I plan on having the rim fixed / replaced and continue riding on them. Time will tell if it was a freak incident or not. I'm hoping it was.

I'm guessing something was wrong with the wheel build or it wasn't the little rock that caused the problem (i.e., it was something more major). Like I said before, I also have an Allez Elite and I'm heavier than you. I also occasionally use the bike for commuting which involves curbs (up and down), gravel, some really rough roads/paths, and once, a five minute singletrack excursion. After all of that, the wheels are still fine. So like I said, I'm guessing it wasn't the rock causing the problem, there were likely other issues prior (no tension?).

Also, you may think $1000 is a lot for a road bike but today, it's essentially just a little above the starting point for quality road bikes.

I don't think that new technology is worse or weaker, I think that in the last 10 years people have gotten rougher on bikes. Technology hasn't really kept up with the pace of the quickly evolving sport. There's nothing wrong with a 1 grand bike, or even considerably less, as long as it's setup PROPERLY and worn in(and of course, not abused :rolleyes: ).

Cables strech, forks need to wear in, brakes need to break in, the drivetrain...just about everything does(hopefully not the frame though. :rolleyes: )