I have built a VERY nice mountain bike using Shimano's parts VERY sparingly. And actually I probably paid less total than if I'd used equivalent Shimano parts. Oh.. and every part on my bike also works with practically every other manufacturers standard parts, too. Standards are a good thing. I dislike Shimano, so I try like hell to stay away from their parts.. it's pretty simple, really.

I can't be fussed about who likes Shimano and who does'nt. The facts are :
They make the best hubs $ for pound.
Their shifters are better than anything lese out there.
Their Derailleurs are by far the best SRAM included
Their Crank sets are the best value for money
Their BB's outlast everything else offroad. ISIS? what a load of crap!

Their chains are crap though.

Rapid Rise is the most logical thing they have invented and I hope it never dies. Absolutley brilliant stuff.

Right so you don't want to be locked into using Shimano components. Then don't. buy bits from everywhere else.
Personally I like to be able to walk into any bike shop anywhere in teh world and buy a similar component to the one which has just broken. Who else offers that?

Long live Dual Control
Long Live Rapid Rise
Long live Octalink
Long ive Shimano.

Hey Tim, need another derailleur? Rev.Chuck, has one for sale!

L8R

TimB is talking out of his ass.

Yeah cheap. No engagement points and disposable...not the best for the money just the most easy to dispose of.

Smoking some funny stuff lately? FSA right now probably offers the strongest most durable cranks for the money with Raceface being up there as well. Shimano definately doesn't own this category.

Now I hope you are just being sarcastic for the sake of being sarcastic. Please let you be a troller...PLEASE!!! :D...

Shimano makes great stuff for xc. Yes they do...xc :D

Even for XC, I defer to other brands where they're superior. Here's the breakdown on my XC bike of components in Shimano's playing field:

Shimano:
-- Front Hub (came stock but will probably switch to Mavic wheelsets in the future)
-- Rear Hub (came stock but will probably switch to Mavic wheelsets in the future)
-- Shifters
-- Brake Levers
-- Computer
-- Cables
-- Front Derailleur
-- Rear Derailleur
-- Cassette

Race Face:
-- Headset
-- Stem
-- Bottom Bracket
-- Crankarms
-- Chainrings

Avid:
-- Front Brake
-- Rear Brake

SRAM:
-- Chain

Pedals:
-- Time

Shoes:
-- Sidi

From past experience with Shimano's MTB stuff, I find that in general, they're pretty good with the intricate parts (Shimano shifting is uber smooth) but get surpassed in the areas where the parts are simpler but need to be more durable.

I'm no troller
and you'e right they stuff is geared toward XC.

If anyone has RR derailleurs they don't want I'll give youmy postaL address and you can send for free.
As faras I'm concerned RR is the bees knees in MTB hifting.

And whats wrong with Shimano Cranks??? They're stiff, quite light excellent finish quality and they're cheap (exceot XTR).

Also the BB's are the most hassle free I've used. Tried ISIS and it failed after 3months. Sold the cranks junked the BB and got a Coda Tarantual running on a ES70. Thats been running for a yr in the british climate. no play , no squeaks, no problemo.

And the hubs, Well if you compare them to King hubs then yeah their engagement is lousy, but Kings make all other hubs look lousy. But £430 for King hubs vs £150 for XTR!! I think I'll stay with the XTR thanks. I can have another set of wheels for the price of the King hubs.

All in all Shimno gives you way more bang for your buck than any of the small manufacturers. Anyone who denies this is deluding himself.
Now if you prefer boutique brands, then say so. I choose function over brand name.
Forme Shimano gets the job done, efficiently and reliably. What more can you ask for.

Thats probably the issue. This is suppost to be a gruppo dedicated to dhillers and freeriders and I assume this includes urban guys as well.

To be honest I am not a good enough rider to tell the difference. But being forced to use one or the other is pissy. I also don't like the look.

Xc maybe but I have blown out a couple of shimano bb's. Not to say they are the worst (I don't like truvative as I smoked those in 2 weeks). Raceface and FSA are where it is at for strenght in bb area imo.

Actually compare them to ANYTHING. 90% of the aftermarket hubs have double the engagement points if not more. The aftermarket ones are also more durable and easier to rebuild (in some cases) CK is an exception as I agree dollar for dollar CK don't offer much value for the average rider.

You are right. But McDonalds give me my best bang for buck when it comes to dinner. It still isn't good for me or most hardcore dh and freeriders :D

Since this is for the freeride and dh side of things I still think this gruppo leaves a lot to be desired. I have named why and am still 100% sure I am right. :)

BTW I was kidding about the troller thing :)

LOL!!
Ok for freeriding and DH the XTR was never intended. The where the New saint gruppo fits in. And it has all the right ingredients for an excellent set of parts for that application.

The new XTR type BB/Crank interface is ver very stiff and should be bloody strong. Also easy to service and Q factor is not an issue. It's actually the same as my Coda Taratula which is lower than a Deore LX.
The hubs are still cup and cone and thats far bettter for the kind of loads that free riders and DH 'ers exert on their components. Youdon't find cartridge bearing s in MotoX bikes do you? They're all cup and cone.

And Shimano hubs are dead easy to service. OK the freehubs do have a reputation of exploding although I've never had one break on any ofmy MTB's

I've had Hope Xc hubs and sold them and the spare set. Just required to much maiantenance to keep them running. If I add up the time for the miantenence and service bills at the LBS I would rather have just replaced the freehub each time.

I thought thats what we were talking about. My mistake :) As for the right ingredients. Don't even get me started. I have posted enough times on why I think this gruppo needs some changes.

I blow a freehub every 2 months or so. And absolutely destroyed the front hub within 6 month (I mean the thing blew up, pretty cool to watch if I hadnt been on the bike)

Any there is no need to keep going round and round. I disagree and don't think the hub/der is a good thing or even the shimano disc brake idea of requiring their brakes. Proprietary sucks. Dont get me wrong I like Shimano but in 1985 I chose PC over Mac for the very reasons I will choose someone (I don't know who yet) over shimano.

I do hav one change to all of the things I have said against the saint group. I said at one point you could not run ANY other chainguide with their bb crank interface. I have been told by a friend I am wrong. It does fit regular chain guides...:)