yep.

If you are moving the fork crown race up, then sure, geometry changes may not take place, however it is assumed the fork crown race is fixed, and constant, if that is the case head tube geometry does change, if the bottom of the head tube is milled.

Maybe... That was a pretty technical drawing packed with a wealth of information :D

OK, here is my kick at the cat ;)

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9...eometryyq0.jpg

That's the whole point!!! We're not dealing with a dual crown fork with crowns that you can move up/down the tube. We're dealing with a dual crown fork that has a fixed crown on bottom and a double clamp crown on top. No triple clamps. Only one crown can move.

Exactly my point.
I'm not saying that I want to make head angles any different by cutting, just that there is an effect.

Raising the lower crown or making the axle to crown distance greater raises the front of the frame and gives a more slack head angle.
As would the starting point that I was using.
The top of the head tube lined up with the bottom of the upper crown, and then cutting the top off and then re-alligning the top after the cut will make it more slack.
The triple clamps on the fork tubes get raised and then tightened to hold it in this position, or in this case, the smaller area to fit the head tube is what holds the position, and the fixed lower clamp did not move.

Cutting the bottom off did not move the frame because I started with the top already lined up and just cut the bottom to fit in my scenerio.
just as when starting at the lower refference point (bottom crown), cutting the top off also did not move the frame or head angle.
It's stil X and we have actually been going off of the same theory, but from opposite ends.

But your scenario doesn't apply to the thread. She's not putting an 888 on her boy's XC bike. She's using a Lefty with a FIXED lower crown.

Yeah...yeah...oh well. What were we talking about?

Oh yeah...apclassic9, you're hosed unless you mill down the top of that head tube a bit.

Hey! Here's a thought:

Try to find a stem with a short stack height too.

That is true about being hosed until you make it fit.
The rest is academic.

Either way, make it fit by what ever means you have to,
Get Cai to the races and to be able to practice on the race bike, and the rest will pretty much take care of it's self.

For the record,
I have only cut 2 head tubes (other than just a VERY minor facing here and there for assembly that would normally entail just taking powder coat or peoples paint off where they didn't mask it)

1 was for a guy who dropped a brand new frame on a concrete curb and left a 1/16" mark in the upper face, and the one on my bike as described a page or 2 back where I made more clearance to fit the desired equipment being big tires on an old school bike.
The first was easy, just reface it and he was happy. 1/16" is not much to worry about and it came out perfect.
The second was mine and the bike is still ridable and in my garage today.
No adverse effects were noticed. I still use this bike quite a bit for urban assault rides and at the local BMX track to play on the jumps and pump sections.
Yes, it did make it more slack, only a little, but more slack none the less, lower crown got moved up,
and I think from there, we've beet this thing to death.

Sorry it took me so long to get back - I had to go find a new keyboard after seeing Pete's sketch while drinking a glass of water.


You know what they say about "assume?" Well, in this case, they're half right (not my half, either).

i hav inquiries about tubing patchinesses if my thing that you peeps talkin bout hear gets hole will patchinesses of glue type work for plugging of heedtubes. sometymes my bike luvs to hit rocks crashy-like and want to make it back if bad things happens and i alwhys have the carrying of patchinesses of glue type anwaays.

thx peeps

Gastro, the mods frown on creating second usernames and playing around making postings like this :D

Meme's writing style had a certain something that really, really made him stand out.

Flowbee!

I don't know if meme/wewe are the same, but their writing styles differ. I think gastro's refined writing style (not a sarcastic comment) would be hard to shake off and he wouldn't be able to pull off meme prose.

Oh ye of little faith!

Hay guyz, i droo a pictur tew/

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...1/godsbike.jpg

Quick - - someone UNinstall Paint from his computer!

For some reason there wasn't a paint program on my computer, and getting the original MSPaint wasn't exactly easy.

Hey look...I changed the head angle.:rolleyes:

One last try and then I'm out of this one.

All I've been trying to say is that if you take a 6" head tube and a 5 1/2" area between the clamps to fit it into, you can alter the head angle SLIGHTLY by playing with that 1/2" difference either up or down when deciding where to make your cut.

That's it. That's the whole point, That has always been the whole point on my end.
There is that little bit of area that you can "play" to manipulate the head angle one way or another.
It's really very basic.

There is also this from the frame builders section:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=280093
I asked and got an answer

And yes gastro, I know what assuming does. lol

If you have influence, bring meme back.

bottom line it for me. Can I still get a sponsorship or what?

Are we finished here?

That's got to be the best answer all day.:)

I believe so

I think I need a drink.

So what's going to be the final outcome, ap? If you want, I've got a lefty that'll fit for sure - - Salsa might not crazy about the fact that it has the accessory righty to it too:

http://www.rst.com.tw/product/pd2005/image2005/1.jpg

Ya, back on the first page.
It was only the principal in that there is that slight head angle change that can be manipulated.
Operative word being slight.

Last I checked though, there are a ton of bike catalogs out there that list their head angles down to the 10th of a degree, and there is that slight difference.

That was it though. That it can be manipulated by the amount being cut out depending on where you cut.
We are only talking about 1/2" at the very most, probably closer to 1/4 if they are lucky.

The reason I even posted at all about it was for in case the bike in question has an overly slow or an overly quick head angle, that problem can be compounded or rectified just a little. Again, very slightly being the operative words.

I figured though that since they are looking at cutting it any way, then why not try to kill 2 birds with 1 stone as the saying goes.